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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 10:50 
ice
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I just made a little sentence in :con: Vanga, which might be funny to do, as it might contain some kind of causative or derived form of words like water or wet, or entirely different constructions like give water or extinguish the thirst of, and it also requires a temporal adverb or other means of expressing yesterday. There is also the matter of possession, which can be very interesting to play with. Also how to solve number.

Vanga doesn't have nouns or adjectives. Only verbs. It does have personal pronouns, but those could be thought of as verbs with irregular endings, I guess.

Vlnǽsid nújunuhnalji qĺajnimpi.
I watered my flowers yesterday.
"When it was a day they flower for me I wetted them."

be_day<PAST>-3PS.INANIM.TEMP.CONTR flower-3PP.ANIM-OBJ.1PS wet<PAST*>-1PS-OBJ.3PP
v<l>ń-As.Azid núj-[A>u]n[A>n]h-nAlji q(<l>)ĺ-Aj-nimpi

[ˈvŋ̩æːs̻ɪ ˈnʊːjʊnʊ̃htn̥aljɯ ˈqɫ̩ːaɪ̯jnɯm̥pɯ]

* For this particular verb, the past tense is actually the same as the present, so in reality, there is no change here.


Now adding another similar translation challenge.


How about trying to figure out what to do with conjunctions and multiple possessions? Let's translate another sentence where not only flowers are watered, but also trees. Both the trees and the flowers belong to the first person singular. Will you mark possession twice or once? How will you handle the conjunction?

:con: Vanga:

Hóhnahnalji nújunuhhódo qĺajnimpi.

I watered my trees and (my) flowers.
"They are trees for me they are flowers too I wetted them."

be_tree-3PP.ANIM-OBJ.1PS flower-3PP.ANIM-CONJ wet<PAST*>-1PS-OBJ.3PP
heih-[A>u]n[A>n]h-nAlji núj-[A>u]n[A>n]h-ódo q(<l>)ĺ-Aj-nimpi

[ˈhɔːhtn̥ɑhtn̥ɑljɯ ˈnʊːjʊnʊɧːɔː ˈqɫ̩aɪ̯jnɯm̥pɯ]

This is potentially ambiguous and there is another way to do it.

Hóhnahhaqqam nújunuhnalji qĺajnimpi.
"They are trees together with which they are flowers for me I wetted them."
be_tree-3PP.ANIM-REL-INST flower-3PP.ANIM-OBJ.1PS wet<PAST*>-1PS-OBJ.3PP
heih-[A>u]n[A>n]h-Aq-2Am núj-[A>u]n[A>n]h-nAlji q(<l>)ĺ-Aj-nimpi

[ˈhɔːhtn̥ɑɧːɑqːɑm ˈnʊːjʊnʊ̃htn̥ɑljɯ ˈqɫ̩aɪ̯jnɯm̥pɯ]

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‹› · Ḿḿ Ńń Ĺĺ Śś Źź Ąą Ǫǫ Ųų Æ̨æ̨ Ǽǽ Œ̨œ̨ Œ́œ́ Ɣɣ Y̋y̋ Įį Şş Z̧z̧ θ
Āā Ēē Īī Ōō Ūū ↗ Ṭṭ C̣c̣ Łł Ḍḍ Ṣṣ Ẓẓ Ṇṇ Ŋŋ e˞ o˞ ʷ ʲ ʰ ə


Last edited by Skógvur on Mon 07 May 2012, 11:58, edited 10 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 10:54 
wood
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:kal:
Ippassaq naanikka imerterpakka.
ippassaq naan-i-kka imiq-tiq-pa-kka
yesterday flower-PL-ABS.1s.POSS water-?-IND-1s.3po

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 11:06 
ice
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I guess I could do :con: Kozea too.

Classic:

Fa mrānyair zâwîrei mōr hyintiz.

CAUS wet-1PS flower-POSS.1PS-PLUR.ACC.FEM before turn-SING.DAT.NEUT
"I made wet my flowers before turn (of sun)."

[fa ˈmraːɲa.ɪr ˈzaːˈwiːrɛ.ɪ ˈmoːr ˈçɪntɪz]

Modern:

A fa mrānyāe núwîrēat mōr hyintiz.

PTCPL CAUS wet-3PP flower-POSS.1PS-PLUR.NOM.FEM before turn-SING.DAT.NEUT
"Made wet (were) my flowers before turn (of sun)"

[a fa ˈmraːɲaɪ̯ ˈnɔʊ̯wˈiːrjaː(t) mɔrˈçɪntɪʒ]

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‹› · Ḿḿ Ńń Ĺĺ Śś Źź Ąą Ǫǫ Ųų Æ̨æ̨ Ǽǽ Œ̨œ̨ Œ́œ́ Ɣɣ Y̋y̋ Įį Şş Z̧z̧ θ
Āā Ēē Īī Ōō Ūū ↗ Ṭṭ C̣c̣ Łł Ḍḍ Ṣṣ Ẓẓ Ṇṇ Ŋŋ e˞ o˞ ʷ ʲ ʰ ə


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 13:37 
MVP
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In Wateu, a causative may be formed with the prefixes a-, ta- and pa-.

Ko pamanoo xeina a mai panakoo.
PFV CAUS.water flower ERF 1s yesterday
[ko ˌpaːmaˈnoː ˈʔei̯na aː mai̯ panaˈkoː]

It's also possible to use the bare stem:

Ko manoo xeina a mai panakoo.
PFV water flower ERG 1s yesterday

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 17:00 
puremetal
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:zho:
我昨天给我的花儿浇水
Wǒ zuótiān gěi wǒde huàr jiāoshuǐ
1ps yesterday give 1ps-POSS flower water

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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 00:08 
wood
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:rus:
Я вчера поливал (свои) цветы.
я вчера полива-л-Ø свой-и цвет-ы
1s yesterday water.IMPERF-PT-MASC REFL.POSS-PL.ACC flower-PL.ACC

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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 00:14 
earth
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Kannow:
Tqambijaŗùsʼow cnuřuupow.
[tʰqʰɑmbiɟɑˈrʷutsʼəw cʰnuˈʈʂʰuːpʰəw]
t-qambi-ja-ŗù-sʼ-ow cnur-hu-opow
P.PL-yesterday-SENS.NRPST.CAUS-be_wet flower-INDEF.PL-1S.POSS

Cherun:
Myphei urd ard kla saat jeurm suka.
[mʲɪ̆pʰəːi̯ ʔɚ̰ ʔa˞̰ c͡ʎ̥˔æ sæːtʰ cɚːm sɯkæ]
yesterday pick_up water put do plant 1S


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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 03:49 
mayan
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:vie:
Hôm qua tôi cho cây hoa tôi nước.
[hóm kwáː tóɪ tɕɔ́ kɜ́ɪ hwáː tóɪ nɯ̌ək̚]
day previous 1S.POLITE give CLF flower 1S.POLITE water


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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 04:48 
sinic
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:con: Hra'anh

Iok ezishare ioz aka komea zochdi.
iok e<zi>shar-e ioz aka kome-a zochdi.
1SG.ERG <DAT>flower-PL 1SG.POSS water give-PST yesterday
[jok ˌɛ.ˈzi.ʃɑ.ɾɛ joz ɑ.kɑ ko.ˈmɛ.ɑ ˈzo.ʃə.di]
"I to flowers mine water gave yesterday."

Since Hra'anh is pro-drop, one would normally say, "Ezishare aka komea zochdi."

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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 06:41 
MVP
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:jpn: Japanese

昨日私の花に水をやりました。
kinou watashi no hana ni mizu o yarimashita.
yesterday 1 POS flower DAT water ACC do/give-POL-PST

:jpn: Kagoshima

昨日俺が花ぇ水ぉやいもした。
kinu oiga hane mijo yaimoshita.
kinu oi-ga hana-i mizu-o yai-moshi-ta.
yesterday 1=POS flower=DAT water=ACC do/give-POL-PST

:ryu: If I had to guess, Okinawan might be something like:

昨日我んぬ花んかいどぅ水ややびたん。
chinuu wannu hana-nkai-du miji yayabitan.
chinuu wan-nu hana-nkai-du miji yay-abi-ta-n
yesterday 1=POS flower-DAT-FOC water do/give-POL-PST-PRED


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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 07:30 
cuneiform
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Image

Image

dava ga shokj nje movj
/dava ga ʃokʲ nʲe movʲ/
day before feed (subject marker) flower

shokj can apply to satisfying hunger or thirst, for plants it's mostly assumed to mean watering them if you aren't specifying which. It also implies a level of personal attachment, if I was just casually watering some plants for a neighbour I wouldn't use it, which is also why "movj tje", "my flowers" rather than just "movj" is redundant here. Also, if used improperly, it can sound very condescending, generally it's only applied to small children/plants/pets.

Now completing the similar translation challenge.

utje shokj nje movj tovj'ta
/utʲe ʃokʲ nʲe movʲ tovʲta/
PST feed (subject marker) flower tree and-INCL

If you did need to mark possession on multiple things, you don't have to mark it on all of them, marking it on the conjunction works fine ("movj tovj'ta tje").

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Last edited by Toko on Tue 08 May 2012, 02:35, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 09:11 
light
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:fra:
J'ai arrosé mes fleurs hier.
I have watered my.PL flowers yesterday

:esp:
Regué mis flores ayer.
watered.1S.PAST my.PL flowers yesterday

:por:
Reguei as minhas flores ontem.
watered.1S.PAST the.PLUR.FEM my.PL.FEM flowers yesterday


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PostPosted: Mon 07 May 2012, 11:57 
ice
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Now adding another similar translation challenge.

Check the first message of the topic.

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:swe: :nor: :dan: :eng: = [tick] | :isl: = [:D] | :esp: :por: :fao: = [:)] | :hun: = [:O] | :fin: = [:|] | :ell: :ara: = [:$] [:(]
‹› · Ḿḿ Ńń Ĺĺ Śś Źź Ąą Ǫǫ Ųų Æ̨æ̨ Ǽǽ Œ̨œ̨ Œ́œ́ Ɣɣ Y̋y̋ Įį Şş Z̧z̧ θ
Āā Ēē Īī Ōō Ūū ↗ Ṭṭ C̣c̣ Łł Ḍḍ Ṣṣ Ẓẓ Ṇṇ Ŋŋ e˞ o˞ ʷ ʲ ʰ ə


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PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2012, 10:04 
wood
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Skógvur wrote:
Now adding another similar translation challenge.


How about trying to figure out what to do with conjunctions and multiple possessions? Let's translate another sentence where not only flowers are watered, but also trees. Both the trees and the flowers belong to the first person singular. Will you mark possession twice or once? How will you handle the conjunction?

:con: Vanga:

Hóhnahnalji nújunuhhódo qĺajnimpi.

I watered my trees and (my) flowers.
"They are trees for me they are flowers too I wetted them."

be_tree-3PP.ANIM-OBJ.1PS flower-3PP.ANIM-CONJ wet<PAST*>-1PS-OBJ.3PP
heih-[A>u]n[A>n]h-nAlji núj-[A>u]n[A>n]h-ódo q(<l>)ĺ-Aj-nimpi

[ˈhɔːhtn̥ɑhtn̥ɑljɯ ˈnʊːjʊnʊɧːɔː ˈqɫ̩aɪ̯jnɯm̥pɯ]

This is potentially ambiguous and there is another way to do it.

Hóhnahhaqqam nújunuhnalji qĺajnimpi.
"They are trees together with which they are flowers for me I wetted them."
be_tree-3PP.ANIM-REL-INST flower-3PP.ANIM-OBJ.1PS wet<PAST*>-1PS-OBJ.3PP
heih-[A>u]n[A>n]h-Aq-2Am núj-[A>u]n[A>n]h-nAlji q(<l>)ĺ-Aj-nimpi

[ˈhɔːhtn̥ɑɧːɑqːɑm ˈnʊːjʊnʊ̃htn̥ɑljɯ ˈqɫ̩aɪ̯jnɯm̥pɯ]


:kal:
Orpiikka naanikkalu imerterpakka.
orpi-it-Ga naan-it-Ga=lu imirtiq-pa-kka
tree-PL-1POSS flower-PL-1POSS=and water-IND-1s.3po

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PostPosted: Tue 08 May 2012, 14:52 
greek
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Jon ja peejmskòw sajèjx jon.
/jɒn jɑ pɛ.ɛjm'skɒw sɑ'jɛjx jɒn/
I water sky.sun.last (grass.colourful)-PL I.
I watered my flowers yesterday.

Jon ja peejmskòw sajèjx djo najx jon.

/jɒn jɑ pɛ.ɛjm'skɒw sɑ'jɛjx djɒ nɑjx jɒn/
I water sky.sun.last (grass.colourful)-PL and tree-PL I.
I watered my flowers and trees yesterday.


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PostPosted: Fri 18 May 2012, 19:58 
korean
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Pazmat:

First sentence:
"Aqi onfpalzji."
[yesterday flower-water-PST-1.SG]

This is very informal and generally used in casual environments

If you want to stress that they're your flowers, or simply to be formal:
"Aqi Wea Onvos palzji."
[yesterday 1.SG-GEN flower-PLU-ACC water-PST-1.SG]

The second:

"Aqi onfpalzji n nkpalzji."
[yesterday flower-water-PST-1.SG and tree-water-PST-1.SG]

Once again, this is informal. To be formal:

"Aqi Wea Onvos n Wea Nkvos palzji."
[yesterday 1.SG-GEN flower-PLUR-ACC and 1.SG-GEN tree-PLU-ACC water-PST-1.SG]

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PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2012, 04:48 
greek
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Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2010, 05:06
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:con: Karpasian

Uvdeosam mie hoibat ikaebatve.
uvdeo-sa-m mie hoi-ba-t ikae-ba-t=ve
water-AOR-1SG my tree-ACC-PL flower-ACC-PL=and

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Last edited by taylorS on Sat 19 May 2012, 07:21, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 19 May 2012, 05:35 
water
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Telèmor is fairly bog-standard Romance-like for the two situations.
Case 1: I watered my flowers yesterday.
Abreuvissir anziè mièie fiorae.
irrigate.1.PST yesterday 1.GEN.F.PL flower.PL
[a.bɾʊˈvis.sir ˈan.zʲə mʲəˈjɛ ˈfʲo.ɾæ]

Case 2: I watered my trees and (my) flowers.
Abreuvissir mièie fiorae și mièie arvețe.
irrigate.1.PST 1.GEN.F.PL flower.PL and 1.GEN.F.PL tree.PL
[a.bɾʊˈvis.sir mʲəˈjɛ ˈfʲo.ɾæ ʃi mʲəˈjɛ aɾˈve.t͡sɛ]
The second possessive article is obligatory because, even though "tree" and "flower" are both feminine, you cannot use a feminine article to encompass a masculine group and vice-versa; therefore, every common-case item in the list requires its own article even if they would share the same gender.

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