Relative clauses

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Xing
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Relative clauses

Post by Xing »

:eng:
That man, to whom I sent the letter, killed the dog.
That man, who sent the letter to me, killed the dog.
That man killed the dog to whom I gave the bone.
That man killed the dog who gave me the bone.

:con:
Waʻtē

Ko pwaūku ta tuki ā taima taka, ko tīge mō te ta ētu ā mai.
[ko̞ paˈɯːk t̪a ˈt̪ɯki aː t̪aˈima ˈt̪aka ko̞ ˈt̪iːŋe̞ mo̞ː t̪e̞ t̪a e̞ːt̪ aː ˈmai]
PRFT kill DEF dog ERG DEM man PRFT send ALL REL letter ERG 1.SG

Ko pwaūku ta tuki ā taima taka, ko tīge ā te ta ētu mō mai.
[ko̞ paˈɯːk t̪a ˈt̪ɯki aː t̪aˈima ˈt̪aka ko̞ ˈt̪iːŋe̞ aː t̪e̞ t̪a e̞ːt̪ mo̞ː ˈmai]
PRFT koll DEF do ERG DEM man PRFT send ERG REL letter ALL 1.SG

Ko pwaūku ā taima taka ta tuki, ko lika mō te ta keirō ā mai.
[ko̞ paˈɯːk t̪a aː t̪aˈima ˈt̪aka t̪a ˈt̪ɯki ko̞ ˈl̪ika mo̞ː t̪e̞ t̪a ke̞iˈr̪o̞ː ˈmai]
PRFT kill ERG DEM man DEF dog PRFT give ALL REL DEF bone ERG 1.SG

Ko pwaūku ā taima taka ta tuki, ko lika ā te ta keirō mō mai.
[ko̞ paˈɯːk t̪a aː t̪aˈima ˈt̪aka t̪a ˈt̪ɯki ko̞ ˈl̪ika aː t̪e̞ t̪a ke̞iˈr̪o̞ː mo̞ː ˈmai]
PRFT kill ERG DEM man DEF dog PRFT give ERG REL bone ALL 1.SG


These are highly subject to change; I have used different strategies in the past. At the moment, 'te' serve as a relative pronoun.
Last edited by Xing on 29 Dec 2011 14:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Ear of the Sphinx
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Ear of the Sphinx »

Sadezik, yn daitik ekgon-ramontǫmen, śek-sardantǫmyv.

Code: Select all

sa- dezik, yn  daitik ekgon-  ramontǫ-m   -en,  śek- sardantǫ-myv
DEM-man,   REL he.DAT letter- give   -PAST-1SG, dog- kill    -PAST
Sadezik, yn dait metik ekgon-ramontǫmyv, śek-sardantǫmyv.

Code: Select all

sa- dezik, yn  dait metik   ekgon-  ramontǫ-myv,  śek- sardantǫ-myv
DEM-man,   REL he   1SG.DAT letter- give   -PAST, dog- kill    -PAST
Sadezik śek-sardantǫmyv, yn itotik ijsar-ramontǫmen.

Code: Select all

sa- dezik śek- sardantǫ-myv,  yn  itotik ijsar- ramontǫ-m   -en
DEM-man   dog- kill    -PAST, REL it.DAT bone-  give   -PAST-1SG
Sadezik śek-sardantǫmyv, yn ih metik ijsar-ramontǫmyv.

Code: Select all

sa- dezik śek- sardantǫ-myv,  yn  ih metik   ijsar- ramontǫ-myv
DEM-man   dog- kill    -PAST, REL it 1SG.DAT bone-  give   -PAST
Last edited by Ear of the Sphinx on 29 Dec 2011 16:32, edited 2 times in total.
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Chagen
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Chagen »

Ooh. Now Cryset can show off its verbal inflections.

Stromo Emfjesta øghekzesørtaisi, iskaifsi Krascmo.
[Stro-mo Emfje-sta øghek-zes-ørt-ai-si, iska-if-si Krasc-mo]
[Man-DEF.ABS Letter-DEF.ABS send-ACTION-LOCATION-1.SG-PST, kill-3.SG-PST Dog-DEF.ABSOL

Stroka Emfjesta øghekzezørtemsi, iskaifsi Krascmo.
[Stro-ka Emfje-sta øghek-zez-ørt-em-si, iska-if-si Krasc-mo]
[Man-DEF.ERG Letter-DEF.ABS send-ACTION-LOCATION-3.SG-PST, kil-3.SG-PST Dog-DEF.ABS]

Stroka iskaifsi Krascmo vgezesørtosi Zdunksta.
[Stro-ka iska-if-si Krasc-mo vge-zes-ørt-o-si Zdunk-sta]
[Man-DEF.ERF kill-3.SG-PST Dog-ABS give-ACTION-LOCATION-1SG-PST Bone-DEF.ABS]

Stroka iskaifsi Krascmoka vgezesørtifsi Zdunksta.
[Stro-ka iska-if-si Krasc-mo-ka vge-zes-ørt-if-si Zdunk-sta]
[Man-DEF.ERG kill-3.SG-PST Dog-DEF.ABS-DEF.ERG give-ACTION-LOCATION-3.SG-PST Bone-DEF.ABS]

That last one was tricky. The dog is both the subject and the object. My solution-mark it for both Ergative and Absolutive.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Xing »

:con: Mii

Kaan laa kima kuupuu kunu, inu mitaa tima iia.
man DEM cause dead dog 1p send letter 3p
Kaan laa kima kuupuu kunu, iaa mitaa tima inu.
man DEM cause dead dog 3p send letter 1p
Kaan laa kima kuupuu kunu, inu taala uukia kunu laa.
man DEM cause dead dog 1p give bone dog DEM
Kaan laa kima kuukuu kunu, kunu laa taala uukia inu.
man DEM cause dead dog dog DEM give bone 1p
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by xinda »

:roc: Mandarin

我寄一封信給那個殺狗的男人。
[wɤ˨˩ tɕi˥˩ i˥˩fəŋ˥ɕin˥˩ kei˨˩ na˥˩kə ʂa˥ koʊ˨˩ tə nan˧˥ʐən˧˥]
1s send one COUNTER letter give that COUNTER kill dog GEN male-person

那個殺狗的男人寄給我一封信。
[na˥˩kə ʂa˥ koʊ˨˩ tə nan˧˥ʐən˧˥ tɕi˥˩kei˨˩ wɤ˨˩ i˥˩fəŋ˥ɕin˥˩]
that COUNTER kill dog GEN male-person send give 1s one COUNTER letter

那個男人殺了我給一個骨頭的狗。
[na˥˩kə nan˧˥ʐən˧˥ ʂa˥lə wɤ˧˥ kei˨˩ i˥kə ku˨˩tʰoʊ˧˥ tə koʊ˨˩]
that COUNTER male-person kill-PERF 1s give one COUNTER bone GEN dog

那個男人殺了給我骨頭的狗。
[na˥˩kə nan˧˥ʐən˧˥ ʂa˥lə kei˨˩ wɤ˧˥ i˥kə ku˨˩tʰoʊ˧˥ tə koʊ˨˩]
that COUNTER male-person kill-PERF give 1s bone GEN dog
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Xing »

Here is an alternative strategy (have not really figured out yet which one I will opt for)

Ko pwaūku ta tuki ā taima taka e ko tīge mō te ta ētu ā mai.
PRFT kill DEF dog ERG DEM man RELATIVISER PRFT send ALL REL DEF letter ERG 1s

Ko pwaūku ta tuku ā taima taka e ko tīge ta ētu mō mai.
PRFT kill DEF dog ERG DEM man RELATIVISER PRFT send DEF letter ALL 1s

Ko pwaūku ā taima taka ta tuki e ko lika mō te ta keirō ā mai.
PRFT kill ERG DEM man DEF dog RELATIVISER PRFT give ALL REL DEF bone ERG 1s

Ko pwaūku ā taima taka ta tuki e ko lika ta keirō mō mai.
PRFT kill ERG DEM man DEF dog RELATIVISER PRFT give DEF bone ALL 1s

Differences from my first strategy:
(1) Relative clauses, as well as adjectives, must be introduced by the relativising particle e.
(2) The relative pronouns te is optional.


EDIT: I decided to scrap e.
Last edited by Xing on 30 Dec 2011 00:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by thetha »

:vie: Vietnamese
Đàn ông tôi gửi thư thì giết con chó.
adult-male 1S send letter TOP kill CLF dog
That man, to whom I sent the letter, killed the dog.

Đàn ông gửi thư đến tôi thì giết con chó.
adult-male send letter to 1S TOP kill CLF dog
That man, who sent the letter to me, killed the dog.

Con chó tôi gửi xương thì đàn ông giết.
CLF dog 1S send bone TOP adult-male kill
That man killed the dog to whom I gave the bone.

Con chó gửi xương đến tôi thì đàn ông giết.
CLF dog send bone to 1S TOP adult-male kill
That man killed the dog who gave me the bone.

I think it's pretty clear what's going on here, but I'll explain anyway. The relative clause part is set as the topic and then the action is told. For the last sentence, a literal translation would be "As for the dog who gave me a bone, the man killed".
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Ralph »

:con: Kantaranyan:

Niq maytiqi kamaytami kiyahi yuku xanrihu.
1sg letter-INS to-send<ANT.INV> that-man dog kill<PFV.DIR>
[ˈneʔ ˌmejˈteqe kaˌmejˈtemi kiˈjehi ˈjoku ˌʃɑːˈɴehu]
That man, to whom I sent the letter, killed the dog.

Niq maytiqi kamaytuki kiyahi yuku xanrihu.
1sg letter-INS to-send<ANT.DIR> that-man dog kill<PFV.DIR>
[ˈneʔ ˌmejˈteqe kaˌmejˈtoki kiˈjehi ˈjoku ˌʃɑːˈɴehu]
That man, who sent me the letter, killed the dog.

Kiyahi niq rakuhi tiatam yuku xanrihu.
that-man 1sg bone-INS give<ANT.INV> dog kill<PFV.DIR>
[kiˈjehi ˈneʔ ʁɑˈkohi ˌtiaˈtam ˈjoku ˌʃɑːˈɴehu]
That man killed the dog to whom I gave the bone.

Kiyahi niq rakuhi tiatuk yuku xanrihu.
that-man 1sg bone-INS give<ANT.DIR> dog kill<PFV.DIR>
[kiˈjehi ˈneʔ ʁɑˈkohi ˌtiaˈtuʔ ˈjoku ˌʃɑːˈɴehu]
That man killed the dog who gave me the bone.

In Kantaranyan the relative clause is set up like a normal clause, but with one of the arguments missing, and placed before the noun that is modified. The role of the modified noun in the sub-clause is given by the verb form - direct if it is the agent, and inverse if it is the patient.

I'm also trying out a slightly modified stress assignment system in the above (whereby the rightmost foot always has the main stress). I think it feels a little more natural than the previous one.
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Pirka »

:rus:
Тот мужчина, к которому я послал письмо, убил собаку.
that.M man-NOM to who-DAT.M 1SG send.PERF-PT.M kill.PERF-PAST.M dog.F-ACC

Тот мужчина, который послал мне письмо, убил собаку.
that.M man-NOM who-NOM.M send.PERF-PT.M 1SG.DAT letter.N-ACC kill.PERF-PT.M dog.F-ACC

Тот мужчина убил собаку, которой я дал косточку.
that.M man-NOM kill.PERF-PT.M who.F-DAT 1SG give.PERF-PT.M bone.F-DIM-ACC

Тот мужчина убил собаку, которая дала мне косточку.
that.M man-NOM kill.PERF-PT.M dog.F-ACC who.F-NOM give.PERF-PT.F 1SG.DAT bone.F-DIM-ACC

:fra:
Cet homme à qui j'ai envoyé la lettre a tué le chien.
that.M man to who 1SG have-1SG.PRS send-PT.PART DEF.F letter have-3SG.PRS kill-PT.PART DEF.M dog

Cet homme qui m'a envoyé la lettre a tué le chien.
that.M man who 1SG.DAT have-3SG.PRS send-PT.PART DEF.F have-3SG.PRS kill-PT.PART DEF.M dog

Cet homme a tué le chien à quoi j'ai donné l'os.
that.M man have-3SG.PRS kill-PT.PART to what.EMPH 1SG have-1SG.PRS give-PT.PART DEF.M bone

Cet homme a tué le chien qui m'a donné l'os.

that.M man have-3SG.PRS kill-PT.PART DEF.M dog who 1SG.DAT have-3SG.PRS give-PT.PART DEF.M bone
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Celinceithir »

Celinese -

That man, to whom I sent the letter, killed the dog.
Canthoío dosnë ðywys aich, logothom síro enofoí.

Code: Select all

Canth-o-ío    dosnë ðywys aich, lo-gothom síro enof-o-í
kill.PST-3SG   dog    man   that  to-whom letter send.PST-1SG


That man, who sent the letter to me, killed the dog.
Canthoío dosnë ðywys aich, ðo síro moir enofoío.

Code: Select all

Canth-o-ío dosnë ðywys aich, ðo   síro    moir   enof-o-ío
kill.PST-3SG dog    man  that that letter to-me send.PST-3SG


That man killed the dog to whom I gave the bone.
Ðywys aich canthoío dosnë, logothom caulos dyðoí.

Code: Select all

Ðywys aich canth-o-ío   dosnë lo-gothom caulos   dyð-o-í.
That   man  kill.PST-3SG dog    to-whom  bone   give.PST-1SG
That man killed the dog who gave me the bone.
Ðywys aich canthoío dosnë, ðo caulos moir dyðoío.

Code: Select all

Ðywys aich canth-o-ío   dosnë ðo caulos moir dyð-o-ío.
That   man  kill.PST-3SG dog  that bone  to-me give.PST-1SG
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Selinki »

That man, to whom I sent the letter, killed the dog.
That man, who sent the letter to me, killed the dog.
That man killed the dog to whom I gave the bone.
That man killed the dog who gave me the bone.

:con: Selinki

Don czejd, kity je projlataol kraj, parkatole klaf
[Don ts`"ejD kit"}: je projlat"a:ol kr"aj p"arkat:o:le kl"af]
That man who-LOC I send-PST.1SG letter-ACC kill-PST.3SG dog-ACC

Don czejd, kit projlataole dry kraj, parkatole klaf
[Don ts`"ejD kit projlat"a:ole Dr} kr"aj p"arkat:o:le kl"af]
That man who send-PST.3SG me-LOC letter-ACC kill-PST.3SG dog-ACC

Don czejd parkatole klaf, kity je projdaol kqnt
[Don ts`"ejD p"arkat:o:le kl"af kit"}: je projD"a:ol k"Mnt]
That man kill-PST.3SG dog-ACC who-LOC I give-PST.1SG bone-ACC

Don czejd parkatole klaf, kit projdaole dry kqnt
[Don ts`"ejD p"arkat:o:le kl"af kit projD"a:ole Dr"}: k"Mnt]
That man kill-PST.3SG dof-ACC who give-PST.3SG me-LOC bone-ACC
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by DanH34 »

I've had to change the wording a little to match my existing vocab.

:eng:
That man, to whom I gave something, saw the woman.
That man, who gave me something, saw the woman.
That man saw the woman to whom I gave something.
That man saw the woman who gave me something.

:con: Zidhgebzhail

ozwukh, hozjaem vil boedef gEin, azefa gAin
ozwukh, hozil vjaem boedef gEin, azefa gAin
ozwukhil azefa gAin hefjaema vil boedef gEin
ozwukhil azefa gAin hefila vjaem boedef gEin
Spoiler:
oz-wukh-Ø, hozjaem v-il boed-ef g-Ei-n, az-ef-a g-Ai-n
man-distal.determiner-ABS.SG.M switch.referent.ABS>LAT 1-ERG.SG.M something-ACC.SG.M PST-give-SIMPLE, woman-ACC-SG.F PST-see-SIMPLE
That man he-to I gave something, saw woman.

oz-wukh-Ø, hozil v-jaem boed-ef g-Ei-n, az-ef-a g-Ai-n
man-distal.determiner-ABS.SG.M switch.referent.ABS>ERG 1-LAT.SG.M something-ACC.SG.M PST-give-SIMPLE, woman-ACC-SG.F PST-see-SIMPLE
That man, he-he gave something to me, saw woman.

oz-wukh-il az-ef-a g-Ai-n hefjaem-a v-il boed-ef g-Ei-n
man-distal.determiner-ERG.SG.M woman-ACC-SG.F PST-see-SIMPLE switch.referent.ACC>LAT-F 1-ERG.SG.M something-ACC.SG.M PST-give-SIMPLE
That man saw woman, her-to I gave something.

oz-wukh-il az-ef-a g-Ai-n hefil-a v-jaem boed-ef g-Ei-n
man-distal.determiner-ERG.SG.M woman-ACC-SG.F PST-see-SIMPLE switch.referent.ACC>ERG-F 1-LAT.SG.M something-ACC.SG.M PST-give-SIMPLE
That man saw woman, her-she gave something to me.

Bloody hell, that took a while.

Dan
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Zidhgebzhail Orthography
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Ehecatl12 »

Rinaki

Iasumpo ioniunki foysha maloka, smosha pempey tulukani
ia-tsumpo-0 ioniunki-0 Foy-sha ma-lo-ka, smo-sha pempey-0 tu-lu-kani
nearby-man-PAT spear-PAT 1.SG-AGT give-REM PAST, 3.SG-AGT dog-PAT kill-REM PAST
That man, to whom I gave the spear, killed the dog
Lit. I gave the spear to that man, he killed the dog

Ia-sumposha ioniunki malokola, smosha pempey tulukani
Ia-tsumpo-sha ioniunki-0 ma-lo-k-ol-a, smo-sha pempey-0 tu-lu-kani
Nearby-man-AGT spear-PAT give-REM PAST-BENE SPKER dog-PAT kill-REM PAST
That man, who gave me the spear, killed the dog.
Lit. That man gave to me a spear, he killed the dog

Kioe ioniunki foysha maloka, iasumposha smo yälena
kioe-0 ioniunki-0 foy-sha ma-lo-ka, ia-tsumpo-sha smo-0 yä-le-na
women-PAT spear-PAT 1.SG-AGT give-REM PAST, neaby-man-AGT 3.sg-PAT
That man saw the women to whom I gave the spear.
Lit. I gave the spear to the women, that man saw her

Kioesha ioniunki malokola, iasumposha smo yälena
Kioe-sha ioniunki-0 ma-lo-k-ol-a, ia-tsumpo-sha smo yä-le-na
Women-AGT spear-PAT give-REM PAT-BENE SPKER, nearby-man-AGT 3.SG see-REM PAST
That man saw the women who gave me spear.
Lit. The women gave me a spear, that man saw her.
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Imralu »

:tan: Swahili:


Mwanaume huyo niliyemtumia barua alimuua mbwa.
/
Mwanaume huyo ambaye nilimtumia barua alimuua mbwa.

That man, to whom I sent the letter, killed the dog.

Code: Select all

 mwanaume  huyo       ni-li-ye-m-tum-i-a          barua      a-li-mu-u-a     mbwa
 man(1)    DEM.REF.1  1s-PST-1.REL-1-send-APPL-Ø  letter(9)  1-PST-1-kill-Ø  dog(9)
"man       that       who-I-sent-to-him           leter      he-killed-him   dog"
________________________________________________________________________________________
 mwanaume  huyo       amba-ye    ni-li-m-tum-i-a       barua      a-li-mu-u-a     mbwa
 man(1)    DEM.REF.1  REL-1.REL  1s-PST-1-send-APPL-Ø  letter(9)  1-PST-1-kill-Ø  dog(9)
"man       that       who        I-sent-to-him         leter      he-killed-him   dog"
Mwanaume huyo aliyenitumia barua alimuua mbwa.
/
Mwanaume huyo ambaye alinitumia barua alimuua mbwa.

That man, who sent the letter to me, killed the dog.

Code: Select all

 mwanaume  huyo       a-li-ye-ni-tum-i-a          barua      a-li-mu-u-a     mbwa
 man(1)    DEM.REF.1  1-PST-1.REL-1s-send-APPL-Ø  letter(9)  1-PST-1-kill-Ø  dog(9) 
"man       that       who-he-sent-to-me           letter     he-killed-him   dog"     
________________________________________________________________________________________
 mwanaume  huyo       amba-ye    a-li-ni-tum-i-a       barua      a-li-mu-u-a     mbwa
 man(1)    DEM.REF.1  REL-1.REL  1-PST-1s-send-APPL-Ø  letter(9)  1-PST-1-kill-Ø  dog(9) 
"man       that       who        he-sent-to-me         letter     he-killed-him   dog"     
Mwanaume huyo alimuua mbwa niliyempa mfupa.
/
Mwanaume huyo alimuua mbwa ambaye nilimpa mfupa.

That man killed the dog to whom I gave the bone.

Code: Select all

 mwanaume  huyo       a-li-mu-u-a     mbwa    ni-li-ye-m-p-a         mfupa
 man(1)    DEM.REF.1  1-PST-1-kill-Ø  dog(9)  1s-PST-1.REL-1-give-Ø  bone(3)
"man       that       he-killed-him   dog     who-I-gave-him         bone"
_______________________________________________________________________________
 mwanaume  huyo       a-li-mu-u-a     mbwa    ambaye    ni-li-m-p-a      mfupa
 man(1)    DEM.REF.1  1-PST-1-kill-Ø  dog(9)  REL-1.REL 1s-PST-1-give-Ø  bone(3)
"man       that       he-killed-him   dog     who       I-gave-him       bone"
Mwanaume huyo alimuua mbwa aliyenipa mfupa.
/
Mwanaume huyo alimuua mbwa ambaye alinipa mfupa.

That man killed the dog who gave me the bone.

Code: Select all

 mwanaume  huyo       a-li-mu-u-a     mbwa    a-li-ye-ni-p-a         mfupa
 man(1)    DEM.REF.1  1-PST-1-kill-Ø  dog(9)  1-PST-1.REL-1s-give-Ø  bone(3) 
"man       that       he-killed-him   dog     who-he-gave-me         bone" 
____________________________________________________________________________
 mwanaume  huyo       a-li-mu-u-a     mbwa    amba-ye    a-li-ni-p-a      mfupa
 man(1)    DEM.REF.1  1-PST-1-kill-Ø  dog(9)  REL-1.REL  1-PST-1s-give-Ø  bone(3) 
"man       that       he-killed-him   dog     who        he-gave-me       bone" 
The first example in each case is more common in writing, the second in speaking.
1s = 1st person singular
1 = 3rd person singular, noun class 1
"Dog" is class 9 but takes class 1 agreements because it is animate.
Last edited by Imralu on 16 Aug 2017 03:05, edited 2 times in total.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Iyionaku
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Yélian

Vat broya pès téviter yisandai u'malfo yiolket a'teriys.
[vɐ̆‿ˈbɾoːʃɐ pɛs ˈteːvɨtəd̟ ɕɨˈsandaɪ̯ ʉˈmalʰo ˈɕɪ̯ɔlkət ɐˈteːɾa̯iːʃ]
DEM man towards REL.ANIM.MASC PST-send-1SG DEF.INAN=letter PST-kill-3SG DEF.ANIM=dog
That man, to whom I sent the letter, killed the dog.

Vat broya téviter yisando u'malfo yiolket a'teriys.
[vɐ̆‿ˈbɾoːʃɐ ˈteːvɨtəd̟ ɕɨˈsando ʉˈmalʰo ˈɕɪ̯ɔlkət ɐˈteːɾa̯iːʃ]
DEM man REL.ANIM.MASC PST-send-INV.1SG DEF.INAN=letter PST-kill-3SG DEF.ANIM=dog
That man, to sent the letter to me, killed the dog.

Vat broya yiolket a'teriys pès téviter yidasai u'clacnar.
[vɐ̆‿ˈbɾoːʃɐ ˈɕɪ̯ɔlkət ɐˈteːɾa̯iːʃ pɛs ˈteːʋɨtəd̟ ɕɨˈdaːsaɪ̯ ʉˈklaknɐd̟]
DEM man PST-kill-3SG DEF.ANIM=kill towards REL.ANIM.MASC PST-give-1SG DEF.INAN=bone
That man killed the dog to whom I gave the bone.

Vat broya yiolket a'teriys téviter yidaso u'clacnar.
[vɐ̆‿ˈbɾoːʃɐ ˈɕɪ̯ɔlkət ɐˈteːɾa̯iːʃ ˈteːʋɨtəd̟ ɕɨˈdaːso ʉˈklaknɐd̟]
DEM man PST-kill-3SG DEF.ANIM=kill REL.ANIM.MASC PST-give-INV.1SG DEF.INAN=bone
That man killed the dog who gave me the bone.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Salmoneus »

There's a bit of ambiguity here in the fourth sentence: it can mean "that man there killed [the dog who gave me the bone]" or "that man who gave me the bone killed the dog". It's confused by the otherwise odd presence of "that", which can trigger "that X that" constructions.

[Like, "those men laugh longest who laugh last", or "that meal is best that all enjoy" and the like.]


However, assuming the interpretation suggested by the pattern of the other three and the most likely readings.... (and in Øynduyska)

-------------------

1.
Five tiers of formality may be distinguished. In the most formal, legalistic writing, or perhaps a declaration in court or the like, the translation would likely be:
Drapað tha mann thar, wha ey tha liti sáð, tha huw
kill.PST DEF man DEM, REL.PRN 1sg DEF letter send.PST, DEF dog

In other formal writing, and highly formal speech, the translation would more likely be:
Tha mann thar, wha ey tha liti sáð, daw he murðr an tha huwa
DEF man DEM, REL.PRN 1sg DEF lett send.PST, put.PST 3sg.masc killing on DEF dog-DAT

Here, the archaic verb drapa, to kill (also colloquially to defeat thoroughly) is replaced by the ordinary phrase donn murðr an (lit. "put/do/perform a killing on"). Also, strict word order has been circumvented by fronting the demonstrative phrase, co-ordinating it with a pronoun in the main clause.

In ordinary but careful speech, and in much informal writing, the translation would instead be:
Tha mann thar, as hem ey tha liti sáð, daw he murðr an tha huwa
DEF man DEM, REL 3sg.masc.DAT 1sg DEF lett send.PST, put.PST 3sg.masc killing on DEF dog-DAT

Here, the rather stilted relative pronoun has been replaced with a mere relativising particle, and the co-ordinating particle has been fronted. However, in much casual speech, and occasionally in writing, the particle is backed rather than fronted, yielding:
Tha mann thar, as ey tha liti sáð hem, daw he murðr an tha huwa
DEF man DEM, REL 1sg DEF lett send.PST 3sg.masc.DAT, put.PST 3sg.masc killing on DEF dog-DAT

More substantively, in particularly casual speech (but almost never in writing), a different relativiser is used and the co-ordinating pronoun is dropped entirely:
Tha mann thar, sam ey tha liti sáð, daw he murðr an tha huwa
DEF man DEM, REL 1sg DEF lett send.PST, put.PST 3sg.masc killing on DEF dog-DAT
(lit. "The man there, that I sent the letter, did killing on the dog")

2.
Tha mann thar, sam tha liti mi sáð, daw he murðr an tha huwa
DEF man DEM, REL DEF letter 1sg.DAT send.PST, put.PST 3sg.masc killing on DEF dog-DAT

(the fronted demonstrative phrase, with its relative, may be sent back into the main clause in the most formal contexts, as above), and likewise drapa may be used)

The very different syntax compared to the above is due to this being a direct relative, as opposed to the indirect relative of the first.

3.
Tha mann thar, daw he murðr an tha huwa, as hem ey tha bann beyàvað
DEF man DEM, put.PST 3sg.masc killing on DEF dog-DAT, REL 3sg.masc.DAT 1sg DEF bone give-PST

The lack of comma in the sentence to be translated suggest, unlike the first two sentences, a restrictive meaning. This can be conveyed by the above sentence. However, if it is necessary to disambiguate (he did not kill the dog you didn't give a bone to), "hem" may be replaced by "tha swassema".

A similar range of options is available here as in 1.

4.
Tha mann thar, daw he murðr an tha huwa, as tha bann mi beyàvað
DEF man DEM, put.PST 3sg.masc. killing on DEF dog-DAT, REL DEF bone 1sg.DAT give-PST
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Imralu
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Imralu »

Salmoneus wrote:There's a bit of ambiguity here in the fourth sentence: it can mean "that man there killed [the dog who gave me the bone]" or "that man who gave me the bone killed the dog".
It can only mean the first one to me because of the placement of the relative clause straight after dog. Otherwise it would have to be as you wrote it.
Salmoneous wrote:[Like, "those men laugh longest who laugh last", or "that meal is best that all enjoy" and the like.]
My internal grammar finds both of those ungrammatical. I haven't quite worked out under what conditions my English grammar permits things to come between the modified noun and the relative clause, but it seems a lot more restrictive than yours. The only thing I can think of right now is that particles of modal verbs can go in between (eg. I cut the meat up that I was going to give to the dogs.) To me, the sentences you wrote sound somewhat archaic.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: Relative clauses

Post by Lao Kou »

Image Géarthnuns:

Chö dhaubs helkeb lé, chöbök sí lé cha pfesensat élöémez sho, chö ngarebsöt nggavökh.
DEF man-NOM that-NOM AUX.PAST, REL-DAT 1SG-NOM AUX.PAST DEF letter-ACC send PTCL, DEF dog-ACC kill
That man, to whom I sent the letter, killed the dog.

Chö dhaubs helkeb lé, chöb lé sík cha pfesensat élöémez sho, chö ngarebsöt nggavökh.
DEF man-NOM that-NOM AUX.PAST, REL-NOM AUX.PAST 1SG-DAT DEF letter-ACC send PTCL, DEF dog-ACC kill
That man, who sent the letter to me, killed the dog.

Chö dhaubs helkeb lé chö ngarebsöt, chöbök sí lé chö nafsörhebsöt gamez sho, nggavökh.
DEF man-NOM that-NOM AUX.PAST DEF dog-ACC, REL-DAT 1SG-NOM AUX.PAST DEF bone-ACC give PTCL, kill
That man killed the dog to whom I gave the bone.

Chö dhaubs helkeb lé chö ngarebsöt, chöb lé sík chö nafsörhebsöt gamez sho, nggavökh.
DEF man-NOM that-NOM AUX.PAST DEF dog-ACC, REL-NOM AUX.PAST 1SG-DAT DEF bone-ACC give PTCL, kill
That man killed the dog who gave me the bone.

Image Japoné語

Cet 男 oué, qui ni j'ga 送tta le 手紙 (au), il ga 殺chita l'犬.
Cet hotôcau oué, qui ni j'ga ocoutta le tégami (au), il ga corauchita l'inou.
[sɛt‿ɔˈtoko we, ki ni ʒgɔ ɔˈkʊt.tɔ lœ̈ ˈtegami (o), i gɔ kɔˈʁoʃɪtɔ l‿ɪˈnu]
DEM man TOP, REL DAT 1SG=NOM send-PAST DEF letter (ACC), 3SG NOM kill-PAST DEF=dog
That man, to whom I sent the letter, killed the dog.

Cet 男 oué, qui ga me ni 送tta le 手紙 (au), il ga 殺chita l'犬.
Cet hotôcau oué, qui ga me ni ocoutta le tégami (au), il ga corauchita l'inou.
[sɛt‿ɔˈtoko we, ki gɔ mœ̈ ni ɔˈkʊt.tɔ lœ̈ ˈtegami (o), i gɔ kɔˈʁoʃɪtɔ l‿ɪˈnu]
DEM man TOP, REL NOM 1SG DAT send-PAST DEF letter (ACC), 3SG NOM kill-PAST DEF=dog
That man, who sent the letter to me, killed the dog.

Cet 男 oué il ga 殺chita l'犬 au, lequel ni j'ga 与éta le 骨.
Cet hotôcau oué il ga corauchita l'inou au, lequel ni j'ga ataéta le honé.
[sɛt‿ɔˈtoko we i gɔ kɔˈʁoʃɪtɔ l‿ɪˈnu o, lœ̈ˈkel ni ʒgɔ ˈatɔetɔ lœ̈ ɔˈne]
DEM man TOP 3SG NOM kill-PAST DEF=dog ACC, REL DAT 1SG=NOM give-PAST DEF bone
That man killed the dog to whom I gave the bone.

Cet 男 oué il ga 殺chita l'犬 au, qui ga me ni 与éta le 骨.
Cet hotôcau oué il ga corauchita l'inou au, qui ga me ni ataéta le honé.
[sɛt‿ɔˈtoko we i gɔ kɔˈʁoʃɪtɔ l‿ɪˈnu o, qui gɔ mœ̈ ni ˈatɔetɔ lœ̈ ɔˈne]
DEM man TOP 3SG NOM kill-PAST DEF=dog ACC, REL NOM 1SG DAT give-PAST DEF bone
That man killed the dog who gave me the bone.
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名可名,非常名
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