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PostPosted: Sat 26 May 2012, 11:21 
wood
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Hmmm....

There is an atelic way to say it in Russian:

Я выстрелил в тебя.
я выстрели-л-Ø в тебя
1S.NOM shoot.PERF-PT-MASC into 2S.АCC

But the telic way presumes death of the target when you've finished shooting (you may have shot the target more than once).

Я застрелил тебя.

я застрели-л-Ø в тебя
1S.NOM shoot_dead.PERF-PT-MASC into 2S

If the target didn't die from your shot, you would have to use the atelic form.

EDIT:

Apparently there exists a word подстрелить which means "to shoot and hit but not necessarily kill". But I'm too lazy to write another glossed sentence. [}:D]

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Last edited by Pirka on Mon 28 May 2012, 00:50, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 27 May 2012, 23:26 
mind
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:con: HyPry (C Cou Proıdounıœmæ Lègælıefra) can deal with this in a few ways. One could use either the (1) allative or (2) dative case on the thing being shot (the former carries the implication that the shot did not hit its mark - more like "I shot in your general direction"), or use a particular verb aspect (3) to indicate that the shot was an attempt, which may or may not have succeeded:

Co énu'en à kæŋ cı óéııerou. (I shot you. [implies that the shot was successful])
DEF-ERG state[1s]-ERG-1s general-PST shoot DEF-ACC state[2s]-ACC-2s

(1) C nén à kæŋ câê óéroulé. (I shot at you. [implies that the shot was unsuccessful])
DEF state[1s]-1s general-PST shoot DEF-ALL state[2s]-2s-ALL
(2) C nén à kæŋ cou óérouua. (I shot at you. [no implication])
DEF state[1s]-1s general-PST shoot DEF-DAT state[2s]-2s-DAT
(3) Co énu'en à kæŋhus cı óéııerou. (I tried to shoot you. [implies that the shot was unsuccessful])
DEF-ERG state[1s]-ERG-1s general-PST shoot-ATT(attemptive) DEF-ACC state[2s]-ACC-2s

Right. There's a gloss now. Sorry about that. [:S]

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Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.


Last edited by kiwikami on Mon 02 Jul 2012, 04:03, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 27 May 2012, 23:37 
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kiwikami wrote:
:con: HyPry (C Cou Proıdounıœmæ Lègælıefra) can deal with this in a few ways. One could use either the (1) allative or (2) dative case on the thing being shot (the former carries the implication that the shot did not hit its mark - more like "I shot in your general direction"), or use a particular verb aspect (3) to indicate that the shot was an attempt, which may or may not have succeeded:

It's definitely a good thing to explain what's going with your translations (and something I'd like to see more of). But I still can't see how those individual parts are functioning in your lang because you haven't added glosses.

Please add glosses and if you like some IPA/XSAMPA.

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Ikasmu ati'uki nai uraiur.
Hinai nimuśim naimi nai sasamiur urukani. Śi'ama nai huhumiur na ni'amuśim nai sasamiur.
Pumaki nimuśim śima'a na ami nimuśim ara'a. Hini nihrasum i'aku tumra urukani na nihrasum sanik hraspir.


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PostPosted: Mon 28 May 2012, 00:11 
wood
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kiwikami wrote:
Please forgive the lack of gloss. I cannot figure out how one would express cases on articles, or what exactly one should do with a verb aspect that does not appear to exist anywhere else - unless I am missing something?


For the first issue, you may want to go for either a ART.CAS form or possibly ART-CAS or ART=CAS (where ART is any type of article [definite {DEF}, indefinite{INDEF}] and CAS is any case) depending on how your articles funtion.

I'm not sure what your second issue is. Could you explain further? Do you mean that your verb aspects are independent particles or what?

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PostPosted: Tue 29 May 2012, 15:26 
sinic
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1 - I shot you (and hit you).
2 - I shot at you (I may or may not have hit you).

:con: Zidhgebzhail

1
vil def gAaston
v-il d-ef g-Aasto-n
1-ERG.SG.M 2-ACC.SG.M PST-shoot-SIMPLE
I shot you.

2
vy djaum gAaston
v-y d-jaum g-Aasto-n
1-ABS.SG.M 2-ALLATIVE.SG.M PST-shoot-SIMPLE
I shot towards you.

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PostPosted: Tue 29 May 2012, 16:07 
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Qu qas hőttéz.
Qu qas hőtt-éz.

1SG.NOM 2SG.ACC shoot-PAST
I shot you.

Qu qas amHőttéz.
Qu qas am-Hőtt-éz.

1SG.NOM 2SG.ACC at-shoot-PAST
I shot at you.

Think I did something wrong with the glossing here..

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PostPosted: Tue 29 May 2012, 19:20 
mayan
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:con: Kàmo:

Hipokahaís kosobo.
CL2-strike-1S.A.2S.P metal.DIM

Himàmihaís kosobo.
CL2-throw-1S.A.2S.P metal.DIM

The difference between them is in the verb root. When the verb root for 'strike' is used in this construction, it is certain that the person was hit by the bullet. When 'throw' is used, it is uncertain whether or not the person was hit.


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PostPosted: Tue 29 May 2012, 19:45 
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@Theta: I really like the simple use of changing the verb root here.

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Ikasmu ati'uki nai uraiur.
Hinai nimuśim naimi nai sasamiur urukani. Śi'ama nai huhumiur na ni'amuśim nai sasamiur.
Pumaki nimuśim śima'a na ami nimuśim ara'a. Hini nihrasum i'aku tumra urukani na nihrasum sanik hraspir.


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PostPosted: Sun 03 Jun 2012, 07:37 
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:fra:

J'ai tiré sur toi. (Formal)
I have.1S pulled.PAST.PART on you.EMPHATIC
[ʒe ti.'ʁe syʁ 'twa]
Je t'ai tiré dessus. (More often heard)
I you.ACC.SHORTENED have.1S pulled.PAST.PART onto
[ʒə te ti.'ʁe də.'sy]

Note: You probably hurt them.

J'ai tiré vers toi.
I have.1S pulled.PAST.PART toward you.EMPHATIC
[ʒe ti.'ʁe vɛʁ.'twa]

Note: You probably missed.

---

To shoot: tirer (litt: to pull), faire feu (litt: to do fire)

I think we use the verb "to pull", because you actually pull a trigger. ^^


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Jul 2012, 03:44 
mind
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Added gloss - sorry about that. It's such a pain to gloss HyPry I keep forgetting to come back and do so.
Pirka wrote:
For the first issue, you may want to go for either a ART.CAS form or possibly ART-CAS or ART=CAS (where ART is any type of article [definite {DEF}, indefinite{INDEF}] and CAS is any case) depending on how your articles funtion.

Thanks. Doing that.

Pirka wrote:
I'm not sure what your second issue is. Could you explain further? Do you mean that your verb aspects are independent particles or what?

Sorry - just that a few of my verb aspects don't have official names since they simply don't seem to exist in other language. I've glossed using the names that I've given them - hopefully it makes some semblance of sense.

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Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Jul 2012, 09:19 
hieroglyphic
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OP: That could be as much a question of telicity as of prepositions. I haven't entirely figured out the system of prepositions in I Ichi yet, and it also takes place too early in human time to have a word for shoot. There may be a similar word for shooting arrows whenever I decide to make it.

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Jul 2012, 16:11 
sinic
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Joined: Mon 04 Jun 2012, 14:34
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:con: Aloha

I shot you:
Sia tvo lavum.
/sjæ tʋɔ lævʊɴ/
2sg.iness thing.acc [stab/penetrate/enter]-PST.1sg.

I shot at you:
Sio tvo lavum.
/sjɔ tʋɔ lævʊɴ/
2sg.till thing.acc [stab/penetrate/enter]-PST.1sg.

No words for shoot (closest would be enter/stab from afar, which would be redundant in this context)
Can also be interpreted as 'I entered/fed (something) in/to you' in a sexual(masculine)/caring(feminine) sort of way.

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Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.


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PostPosted: Thu 05 Jul 2012, 16:24 
mind
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Aseca wrote:
No words for shoot (closest would be enter/stab from afar, which would be redundant in this context)
Can also be interpreted as 'I entered/fed (something) in/to you' in a sexual(masculine)/caring(feminine) sort of way.
So the phrases "I shot you" and "I had intercourse with you" are... pretty much interchangeable?
There is room for a lot of bad jokes with this. And some hilarious misunderstandings in action movies.

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I am a conlanger, a scuba diver, a belly dancer, an introvert, a reader, a writer, a gamer, a Superwholockian, a pianist, a clarinetist, a sailor, a CGI artist, a singer, a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, a hope-er, a pray-er, and a magic-bean-buyer. Who are you?

Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.


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