Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Short, pithy, piquant, chiastic - everything that makes a challenging & fun CBB translation.
And did I mention short?
1. ōdi ĕt ămō.
hate<DEPONENT>1SG CNJ love<PRS>1SG
[o:.djet a.mo: ]
I hate and I love
2. quāre īd făcĭām fōrtāssĕ rĕquīrīs.
INTERR.ADV DEM.N.ACC.SG do<SUBJV>PRS.1SG ADV ask<PRS>2SG
[kwa:.ɾe i:d fa.kjã:m fo:ɾ.ta:.s:e re.kwi:.ɾi:s]
Perhaps you ask why I may do this
3. nēscĭŏ. sēd fĭĕrī sēntĭo. ĕt ēxcrŭcĭŏr.
NEG=know<PRS>1SG CNJ become<INF> feel<PRS>1SG CNJ torture<PASS>PRS.1SG
[nɛ:.skjo sɛ:d fje. ɾi: | sɛ̃:n.tjo: et ɛ:ks.kru.kjɔɾ]
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured
{*I included the scansion in case you felt like taking it to the next elegiac level}
Çetara
1. Eio odie amoçe
1SG.NOM hate<PRS>1SG love<PRS>1SG=CNJ
[ɛ.jo ɔ.ʤe ã.mɔ.ʃe]
2. Cur facem quesçe mi petis
INTERR.ADV do<SBJV>1SG INTERR.M=know<SBJV>3SG 1SG.OBJ ask<PRS>2SG
[ku: fa.sẽ qʸø.ʃe mi pɛ.dis]
3. Eio nesçie vue sidie facer escruçureçe
1SG.NOM NEG=know<PRS>1SG CNJ feel<PRS>1SG make-PRS.INF 1SG.NOM torture<PASS>PRS.1SG=CNJ
[ɛ.jo nɛ.ʃ:e βwɛ sĩ.ʤe fa:.sɛɾ ɛs.ku.ʒu:.ʃe]
Karboforofilus –
1. Ego dedesdo ed amo
1SG.NOM detest-PRS CNJ love-PRS
[e.go de.des.do ed ã.mo]
2. kare ego hok fakdo fordaße du rekiro
INTERR.ADV 1SG.NOM DEM.N.ACC make-PRS ADV 2SG.NOM ask-PRS
[ka.ɾe e.go hɔk fak.do foɾ.ta.s:e du re.ki.ɾo]
3. Ego ignoro sed sendo fiaßo ed eskrukiaßo.
1SG.NOM not.know-PRS CNJ feel-PRS become-PRS CNJ torture-PRS
[e.go ig.no.ɾo sed sẽn.do fja.s:o e des.kru.kja.s:o]
Rozwi -
1. Yaza i vuo’yai a ya’ali.
CNJ 1SG.NOM hate-PRS.1SG CNJ love<PRS>1SG
[ja.za ʲi βwɔ.ʔjɛj ʔa ja.ʔa.li]
2. Hie truē tomō gæ`im selaswutoar
INTERR.ADV make<SBJV>1SG DEM.SG PREVRB<OPT>2SG ask
[ɦjɛ trwɛ: tɔ͂.mo: gæ.ʔĩm se.la.swu.tɔəɾ]
Nu χetē kaiaum šiy done~yeboni ča θendui.
NEG know<PRS>1SG CNJ feel<PRS>1SG INF=become CNJ suffer<PRS>1SG
[nu χe.tɛ: ke.jãʊm ʃij dɔ͂.ne.je.bɔ͂.ni ʧa θẽn.dwi]
tlhInganHol –
1. jImuS ‘ej jIparHa’.
1SG=love CNJ 1SG=hate
[ʤɪ.muʂ ʔɛʤ ʤɪ.pɑr.xɑʔ]
2. qatlh jIchenmoH’egh, chaq chotlhob
INTERR.ADV 1SG-create=RFLX | ADV 2SG=ask
[qʰɑtɬ ʤɪ.ʨɛn.mɔx.ʔɛɣ | ʨɑqʰ ʨɔ.tɬɔb]
3. jISovbe’, ‘ach qaSbogh vIHot, ‘ej jIbech.
1SG=know=NEG CNJ occur=REL 1SG=feel CNJ 1SG=suffer
[ʤɪ.ʂɔv.bɛʔ ʔɑʨ qʰaʂ.bɔɣ vɪ.xɔtʰ ʔɛʤ ʤɪ.bɛʨ ]
Formosan –
1. Jerh chato kai jerh vidego
1SG.NOM love<PRS>1SG CNJ 1SG.NOM hate<PRS>1SG
2. kens oion jerh viar gnadey, sen demech
CNJ 3SG.N.OBJ 1SG.NOM be<FUT> make<PRS> | 2SG.NOM say<PRS>
3. jerh kau demech modiou, ai jerh noskion foder kai jerhvie lakchen chin malaboski.
1SG.NOM NEG say<PRS> testimony | CNJ 1SG.NOM believe<PRS> come<PRS> CNJ 1SG=be<PRS> suffer<PST.PTCP> PRP temptation
And did I mention short?
1. ōdi ĕt ămō.
hate<DEPONENT>1SG CNJ love<PRS>1SG
[o:.djet a.mo: ]
I hate and I love
2. quāre īd făcĭām fōrtāssĕ rĕquīrīs.
INTERR.ADV DEM.N.ACC.SG do<SUBJV>PRS.1SG ADV ask<PRS>2SG
[kwa:.ɾe i:d fa.kjã:m fo:ɾ.ta:.s:e re.kwi:.ɾi:s]
Perhaps you ask why I may do this
3. nēscĭŏ. sēd fĭĕrī sēntĭo. ĕt ēxcrŭcĭŏr.
NEG=know<PRS>1SG CNJ become<INF> feel<PRS>1SG CNJ torture<PASS>PRS.1SG
[nɛ:.skjo sɛ:d fje. ɾi: | sɛ̃:n.tjo: et ɛ:ks.kru.kjɔɾ]
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured
{*I included the scansion in case you felt like taking it to the next elegiac level}
Çetara
1. Eio odie amoçe
1SG.NOM hate<PRS>1SG love<PRS>1SG=CNJ
[ɛ.jo ɔ.ʤe ã.mɔ.ʃe]
2. Cur facem quesçe mi petis
INTERR.ADV do<SBJV>1SG INTERR.M=know<SBJV>3SG 1SG.OBJ ask<PRS>2SG
[ku: fa.sẽ qʸø.ʃe mi pɛ.dis]
3. Eio nesçie vue sidie facer escruçureçe
1SG.NOM NEG=know<PRS>1SG CNJ feel<PRS>1SG make-PRS.INF 1SG.NOM torture<PASS>PRS.1SG=CNJ
[ɛ.jo nɛ.ʃ:e βwɛ sĩ.ʤe fa:.sɛɾ ɛs.ku.ʒu:.ʃe]
Karboforofilus –
1. Ego dedesdo ed amo
1SG.NOM detest-PRS CNJ love-PRS
[e.go de.des.do ed ã.mo]
2. kare ego hok fakdo fordaße du rekiro
INTERR.ADV 1SG.NOM DEM.N.ACC make-PRS ADV 2SG.NOM ask-PRS
[ka.ɾe e.go hɔk fak.do foɾ.ta.s:e du re.ki.ɾo]
3. Ego ignoro sed sendo fiaßo ed eskrukiaßo.
1SG.NOM not.know-PRS CNJ feel-PRS become-PRS CNJ torture-PRS
[e.go ig.no.ɾo sed sẽn.do fja.s:o e des.kru.kja.s:o]
Rozwi -
1. Yaza i vuo’yai a ya’ali.
CNJ 1SG.NOM hate-PRS.1SG CNJ love<PRS>1SG
[ja.za ʲi βwɔ.ʔjɛj ʔa ja.ʔa.li]
2. Hie truē tomō gæ`im selaswutoar
INTERR.ADV make<SBJV>1SG DEM.SG PREVRB<OPT>2SG ask
[ɦjɛ trwɛ: tɔ͂.mo: gæ.ʔĩm se.la.swu.tɔəɾ]
Nu χetē kaiaum šiy done~yeboni ča θendui.
NEG know<PRS>1SG CNJ feel<PRS>1SG INF=become CNJ suffer<PRS>1SG
[nu χe.tɛ: ke.jãʊm ʃij dɔ͂.ne.je.bɔ͂.ni ʧa θẽn.dwi]
tlhInganHol –
1. jImuS ‘ej jIparHa’.
1SG=love CNJ 1SG=hate
[ʤɪ.muʂ ʔɛʤ ʤɪ.pɑr.xɑʔ]
2. qatlh jIchenmoH’egh, chaq chotlhob
INTERR.ADV 1SG-create=RFLX | ADV 2SG=ask
[qʰɑtɬ ʤɪ.ʨɛn.mɔx.ʔɛɣ | ʨɑqʰ ʨɔ.tɬɔb]
3. jISovbe’, ‘ach qaSbogh vIHot, ‘ej jIbech.
1SG=know=NEG CNJ occur=REL 1SG=feel CNJ 1SG=suffer
[ʤɪ.ʂɔv.bɛʔ ʔɑʨ qʰaʂ.bɔɣ vɪ.xɔtʰ ʔɛʤ ʤɪ.bɛʨ ]
Formosan –
1. Jerh chato kai jerh vidego
1SG.NOM love<PRS>1SG CNJ 1SG.NOM hate<PRS>1SG
2. kens oion jerh viar gnadey, sen demech
CNJ 3SG.N.OBJ 1SG.NOM be<FUT> make<PRS> | 2SG.NOM say<PRS>
3. jerh kau demech modiou, ai jerh noskion foder kai jerhvie lakchen chin malaboski.
1SG.NOM NEG say<PRS> testimony | CNJ 1SG.NOM believe<PRS> come<PRS> CNJ 1SG=be<PRS> suffer<PST.PTCP> PRP temptation
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Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
A wonderful piece.
- Celinese
1. Cofí ar mairí
hate.PRS-1SG and love.PRS-1SG
[kɔˈvi aʐ maiˈɾi]
I hate and I love
2. Cegerthín neısé fí, enont, taiwlynís.
why.ADV this.ABS do.PRS-1SG perhaps self.MUT.ask.PRS-2SG
[ˌkɛgɛɾˈθin nɛˈʂe fi ɛˈnɔnt taiuˌlɪˈnis]
Perhaps you ask why I may do this
3. Nêthí, mair pathë teimí, ar mé r-aichrín.
NEG.know.PRS-1SG but occurrence feel.PRS-1SG and 1SG.ABS E.torture.3PL
[neˈθi maiʐ ˈpaθə tɛiˈmi aʐ me ʐaiχˈɾin]
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured
- Celinese
1. Cofí ar mairí
hate.PRS-1SG and love.PRS-1SG
[kɔˈvi aʐ maiˈɾi]
I hate and I love
2. Cegerthín neısé fí, enont, taiwlynís.
why.ADV this.ABS do.PRS-1SG perhaps self.MUT.ask.PRS-2SG
[ˌkɛgɛɾˈθin nɛˈʂe fi ɛˈnɔnt taiuˌlɪˈnis]
Perhaps you ask why I may do this
3. Nêthí, mair pathë teimí, ar mé r-aichrín.
NEG.know.PRS-1SG but occurrence feel.PRS-1SG and 1SG.ABS E.torture.3PL
[neˈθi maiʐ ˈpaθə tɛiˈmi aʐ me ʐaiχˈɾin]
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured
Mereð netholic!
- | :ast: - | :cym: - | :zho: -
:tsn: :gle: :cor: :hye: :ltz: :sin: :mlg: - wish list
- | :ast: - | :cym: - | :zho: -
:tsn: :gle: :cor: :hye: :ltz: :sin: :mlg: - wish list
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Old
1. Ic lufie and ic hate
1SG.NOM love-PRS.1SG CNJ 1SG.NOM hate-PRS.1SG
2. Hwi do ic þæt, wénunge þú æcsie.
INTERR.ADV do-PRS.1SG 1SG.NOM DEM.N.ACC.SG | ADV 2SG.NOM ask-SBJV.PRS.SG
3. ic né wát, ac ic ȝeféle ðæt hit ȝebelimpe and ic on þam tintregum eom.
1SG.NOM NEG know-PRS.1SG | CNJ 1SG.NOM feel-PRS.1SG REL.N 3SG.N.NOM
happen-SBJV.PRS.3SG CNJ 1SG.NOM PRP DEM.DAT.PL torment-DAT.PL be-PRS.1SG
1. Ic lufie and ic hate
1SG.NOM love-PRS.1SG CNJ 1SG.NOM hate-PRS.1SG
2. Hwi do ic þæt, wénunge þú æcsie.
INTERR.ADV do-PRS.1SG 1SG.NOM DEM.N.ACC.SG | ADV 2SG.NOM ask-SBJV.PRS.SG
3. ic né wát, ac ic ȝeféle ðæt hit ȝebelimpe and ic on þam tintregum eom.
1SG.NOM NEG know-PRS.1SG | CNJ 1SG.NOM feel-PRS.1SG REL.N 3SG.N.NOM
happen-SBJV.PRS.3SG CNJ 1SG.NOM PRP DEM.DAT.PL torment-DAT.PL be-PRS.1SG
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Fjodor Petrovskij's translation:
1. И ненавижу её и люблю.
и нанавиж-у её и любл-ю
and hate.IPVF-1.NPST 3f.ACC and love.IPVF-1.PRS
2. Почему же? — ты спросишь.
почему же - ты спроси-шь
why PART - 2.NOM ask.PFV-2.NPST
3. Сам я не знаю, но так чувствую я, и томлюсь.
сам-Ø я не зна-ю но так чувству-ю я и томл-ю-сь
by_one's_self-M 1 NEG know.IPVF-1.NPST but thus feel.IPVF-1.NPST 1 and fatigue.IPVF-1.NPST-REFL
Taurahe
1. Uluygo wana, karkago.
lwy-ueØ-go wani-a krk-aua-go
adore-IPVF-3.G1 1-ERG hate-IPVF-3.G1
2. Batakuwannigo wača.
ba-taku-wn-aa-nigo wači-a
POT-why-ask-IPVF-1 2-ERG
3. Mayakčalgo wana, čebneni, kitčini.
ma-ya-kčl-iao-go wani-a čbn-eee-ni ktč-iØi-ni
NEG-INTENS-be_in-IPVF-3.G1 1-ERG think_thus-IPVF-1 languish-IPVF-1
1. И ненавижу её и люблю.
и нанавиж-у её и любл-ю
and hate.IPVF-1.NPST 3f.ACC and love.IPVF-1.PRS
2. Почему же? — ты спросишь.
почему же - ты спроси-шь
why PART - 2.NOM ask.PFV-2.NPST
3. Сам я не знаю, но так чувствую я, и томлюсь.
сам-Ø я не зна-ю но так чувству-ю я и томл-ю-сь
by_one's_self-M 1 NEG know.IPVF-1.NPST but thus feel.IPVF-1.NPST 1 and fatigue.IPVF-1.NPST-REFL
Taurahe
1. Uluygo wana, karkago.
lwy-ueØ-go wani-a krk-aua-go
adore-IPVF-3.G1 1-ERG hate-IPVF-3.G1
2. Batakuwannigo wača.
ba-taku-wn-aa-nigo wači-a
POT-why-ask-IPVF-1 2-ERG
3. Mayakčalgo wana, čebneni, kitčini.
ma-ya-kčl-iao-go wani-a čbn-eee-ni ktč-iØi-ni
NEG-INTENS-be_in-IPVF-3.G1 1-ERG think_thus-IPVF-1 languish-IPVF-1
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Odio y amo. Por qué lo hago, tal vez me preguntas.
No lo sé, pero siento que ocurre y me torturo.
Odio e amo. Perché lo faccio, forse mi chiedi.
Non lo so, ma sento che succede e mi tormento.
Atlantika
Memiso ke agapo. Tin gar praso, mirav etwus.
PERF-hate-1SG and love-1SG. it-ACC why do-1SG, I-ABL ask-OPT-2SG
Degnosko, hal tin sivenetin estano, ke algor.
not-know-1SG, but it-ACC happen-PTCP-ACC feel-1SG, and suffer-1SG-MEDIOPASSIVE
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
1. Narasmi kayasmi ca.
Reject-1SG love-1SG and.
I hate and I love.
2. Kebhat satum rvasmi ḑhrvase.
Why this.ACC(PrN.SG) do.MAY-1SG ask.MAY-2SG.REFL
Perhaps you ask why I may do this.
3. Na bhuujhayasmy uutyaty ayasmi na hridamutyasme ca.
Neg know.1SG flow/happen.PASS-3SG feel.1SG but heart-confusion-PASS.1SG-REFL
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured.
Reject-1SG love-1SG and.
I hate and I love.
2. Kebhat satum rvasmi ḑhrvase.
Why this.ACC(PrN.SG) do.MAY-1SG ask.MAY-2SG.REFL
Perhaps you ask why I may do this.
3. Na bhuujhayasmy uutyaty ayasmi na hridamutyasme ca.
Neg know.1SG flow/happen.PASS-3SG feel.1SG but heart-confusion-PASS.1SG-REFL
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured.
Sikatāyām kaṇam lokasya darśasi, svargam phale vanye ca.
See a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Ānantam tava karatalena darasi, nityatām ghaṇṭabhyantare ca.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
See a world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wild flower.
Ānantam tava karatalena darasi, nityatām ghaṇṭabhyantare ca.
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Yélian
Arasai èpa iavai.
[aˈraːsaɪ̯ ˈɛpɐ ˈjaːvaɪ̯]
hate-1SG and love-1SG
I hate and I love.
Barcei baiùielov miyde rat reyut.
[ˈbaɾkɛɪ̯ ˌbaɪ̯.ʊ.ˈjɛloː ˈma̯iːdə rɐt ˈreːʃʊt]
ask-2SG maybe why 1SG.OBL do-INV.3SG.INAN
Maybe you ask why I do this.
Ciquinrai, cut iapetai pi vat uruntet, pariút zareco.
[kiˈkinraɪ̯, kʊt jaˈpɛtaɪ̯ pi vɐt ʊˈruntɛt, parˈjut caˈrɛko]
NEG-know-1SG, but feel-1SG that DEM happen-3SG, therefore torture-INV.1SG
I don't know, but I feel it happen, and am tortured by it.
Arasai èpa iavai.
[aˈraːsaɪ̯ ˈɛpɐ ˈjaːvaɪ̯]
hate-1SG and love-1SG
I hate and I love.
Barcei baiùielov miyde rat reyut.
[ˈbaɾkɛɪ̯ ˌbaɪ̯.ʊ.ˈjɛloː ˈma̯iːdə rɐt ˈreːʃʊt]
ask-2SG maybe why 1SG.OBL do-INV.3SG.INAN
Maybe you ask why I do this.
Ciquinrai, cut iapetai pi vat uruntet, pariút zareco.
[kiˈkinraɪ̯, kʊt jaˈpɛtaɪ̯ pi vɐt ʊˈruntɛt, parˈjut caˈrɛko]
NEG-know-1SG, but feel-1SG that DEM happen-3SG, therefore torture-INV.1SG
I don't know, but I feel it happen, and am tortured by it.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
There's nothing I love more than a translation thread risen from its grave by a benevolent necromancer.
Sangak ja mašjarak.
[ˈsɑŋgɑk jɑ ˈmɑʃjɑrɑk]
hate-1SG.PRS and love-1SG.PRS
I hate and I love
Altar suuhmap, akra anak ulua.
[ˈɑltɑr ˈsuːxmɑp ˈɑkrɑ ˈɑnɑk ˈulu.ɑ]
maybe ask-2SG.FUT why do-1SG.PRS PROX-PART
Perhaps you ask why I may do this.
D'salak, mielekmien sainavor, ja širek.
[ˈtsɑlɑk ˈmie̯le̞kmie̯n ˈsɑi̯nɑʋo̞r jɑ ˈʃire̞k]
NEG=know-1SG.PRS feel-1SG.PRS=but happen-3SG.PRS=that and suffer-1SG.PRS
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured.
Sangak ja mašjarak.
[ˈsɑŋgɑk jɑ ˈmɑʃjɑrɑk]
hate-1SG.PRS and love-1SG.PRS
I hate and I love
Altar suuhmap, akra anak ulua.
[ˈɑltɑr ˈsuːxmɑp ˈɑkrɑ ˈɑnɑk ˈulu.ɑ]
maybe ask-2SG.FUT why do-1SG.PRS PROX-PART
Perhaps you ask why I may do this.
D'salak, mielekmien sainavor, ja širek.
[ˈtsɑlɑk ˈmie̯le̞kmie̯n ˈsɑi̯nɑʋo̞r jɑ ˈʃire̞k]
NEG=know-1SG.PRS feel-1SG.PRS=but happen-3SG.PRS=that and suffer-1SG.PRS
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured.
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
You're quite welcome :)Konungr wrote:There's nothing I love more than a translation thread risen from its grave by a benevolent necromancer.
Caelian
Rar jursal pëc juvdar.
[raɾ jʊɾˈʒal pʰəç jufˈdaɾ]
1SG.NOM hate.1SG and love.1SG
I hate and I love
Zan divmungem birki zönosoc lizwye Rar Dyong tirussing.
[zan dɪfmʊˈŋɛm bɪɾˈkʰi zønɔˈʒɔʃ lɪsˈʋɛ raɾ dʲɔŋ tʰirʊˈʃiŋ]
2SG.NOM reason.ACC request.2SG>3SG maybe why 1SG.NOM DEM.ACC COND-do.1SG>3SG
You might want to know what the reason is that I do so,
Rar Tijöng kë kyungral; Kyët Rar vorwuif kunninnas, pëc Rang tyühraic Tot.
[raɾ tʰɪ̯œŋ kʰə kʲʊŋˈral; kʲət raɾ vɔɾwʊɪ̯ɸ kʰʊˈninaʃ, pʰəç raŋ tʲʏ̟ˈʰraɪ̯ç tʰɔt]
1SG.NOM 3SG.NEUT.ACC NEG know.1SG>3SG; but 1SG.NOM action.ACC percieve.1SG>3SG-can, and 1SG.ACC torture.3SG>1SG 3SG.MASC.NOM
I don't know the reason. But I perceive the action, and it tortures me.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Wena
- Na i zele gwe le.
1s COP hate.AG and love.AG
I love and hate.
Wa i mwemwe bo mu zyu na i dyina u ma i zye.
2s COP possible.E want.AG know.AG GEN.C 1s COP word-1s ADV what COP cause
You might want to know why I am like this.
Na i ze mu mye na i nwi zyi ngimi gwe na i nwinengwa.
1s COP NEG.E know.AG but 1s COP feel GEN.DEF.E internal.event and I COP feel.broken
I don't know, but I feel what happens inside and I am in great pain.
Last edited by Imralu on 06 Feb 2017 15:44, edited 1 time in total.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Bath'aso
Theħeb pulsobus.
[ˈtʰɛʕɛb ˈpɯɫsɔbɯs]
hate=1SG.ABS love=1SG.ABS=too
I hate and I love.
Shels ishti gradekz tshennz spħezt shext tozobz jakb jat.
[ʂɛɫs ˈiʂti ˈ͡gɣadɛkz̥ ͡tʂɛnːz spˤɛzt ʂɛxt ˈtʌzɔbz jɑkb̥ jɑt]
POT want know=2SG.ERG reason why TERM do=1SG.ERG DEM.ABS PROX
You might want to know the reason for why I do this.
Zar gradeb esht tshennzizh. Tzorn pajakp jakbodzh jat, heks zashim batizh.
[zɑɾ ˈ͡gɣadɛb ɛʂt ͡tʂɛnːziʐ | tz̥ɔɾn ˈpɑjɑkp ˈjɑkbʌ͡dʐ jɑt, hɛks ˈzɑʂim ˈbɑtiʐ]
NEG know=1SG.ABS ANTIP reason-INDR. but happen DEM.ABS=feared PROX, INGR dismay 1SG.INDR
I don't know. But it happens what I fear, and I start to be dismayed.
Theħeb pulsobus.
[ˈtʰɛʕɛb ˈpɯɫsɔbɯs]
hate=1SG.ABS love=1SG.ABS=too
I hate and I love.
Shels ishti gradekz tshennz spħezt shext tozobz jakb jat.
[ʂɛɫs ˈiʂti ˈ͡gɣadɛkz̥ ͡tʂɛnːz spˤɛzt ʂɛxt ˈtʌzɔbz jɑkb̥ jɑt]
POT want know=2SG.ERG reason why TERM do=1SG.ERG DEM.ABS PROX
You might want to know the reason for why I do this.
Zar gradeb esht tshennzizh. Tzorn pajakp jakbodzh jat, heks zashim batizh.
[zɑɾ ˈ͡gɣadɛb ɛʂt ͡tʂɛnːziʐ | tz̥ɔɾn ˈpɑjɑkp ˈjɑkbʌ͡dʐ jɑt, hɛks ˈzɑʂim ˈbɑtiʐ]
NEG know=1SG.ABS ANTIP reason-INDR. but happen DEM.ABS=feared PROX, INGR dismay 1SG.INDR
I don't know. But it happens what I fear, and I start to be dismayed.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
German
Ich hasse und ich liebe.
[ʔɪç ˈhasə ˈʊnt ʔɪç ˈliːbə]
1SG hate.1SG and 1SG love.1SG
I hate and I love.
Warum ich das mache, fragst du vielleicht.
[vaːˈʁʊm ʔɪç das ˈmaχə, fʁaːkst duː viːˈlaɪ̯çt]
why 1SG.NOM DEM.NEUT.ACC do.1SG, ask.2SG 2SG.NOM maybe
Perhaps you ask why I may do this.
Ich weiß es nicht. Aber ich spüre, dass es passiert, und es peinigt mich.
[ʔɪç vaɪ̯s ˈʔəs nɪçt. ˈʔaːbɐ ˈʔɪç ˈʃpyːʁə, das ˈʔəs paˈsiɐ̯t, ˈʔʊnt ˈʔəs ˈpʰaɪ̯nɪçt mɪç]
1SG.NOM know.1SG EXPL NEG | but 1SG feel.1SG, that EXPL happen.3SG, and EXPL torture.3SG 1SG.ACC
I don't know. But I feel it happen, and it tortures me.
Ich hasse und ich liebe.
[ʔɪç ˈhasə ˈʊnt ʔɪç ˈliːbə]
1SG hate.1SG and 1SG love.1SG
I hate and I love.
Warum ich das mache, fragst du vielleicht.
[vaːˈʁʊm ʔɪç das ˈmaχə, fʁaːkst duː viːˈlaɪ̯çt]
why 1SG.NOM DEM.NEUT.ACC do.1SG, ask.2SG 2SG.NOM maybe
Perhaps you ask why I may do this.
Ich weiß es nicht. Aber ich spüre, dass es passiert, und es peinigt mich.
[ʔɪç vaɪ̯s ˈʔəs nɪçt. ˈʔaːbɐ ˈʔɪç ˈʃpyːʁə, das ˈʔəs paˈsiɐ̯t, ˈʔʊnt ˈʔəs ˈpʰaɪ̯nɪçt mɪç]
1SG.NOM know.1SG EXPL NEG | but 1SG feel.1SG, that EXPL happen.3SG, and EXPL torture.3SG 1SG.ACC
I don't know. But I feel it happen, and it tortures me.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
French
Je détèste et j'aime.
[ʒədeˈtɛstɛʒæm]
1SG hate.1SG and 1SG=love.1SG
I hate and I love.
Peut-être tu te demandes pourquoi je fais cela.
[pøtɛtʁ̩ ty tə deˈmɑ̃d puʁˈkwa ʒəfæseˈla]
maybe 2SG 2SG.OBL ask.2SG why 1SG do.1SG DEM
Perhaps you ask why I do this.
Je ne le sais pas. Mais je le sens et je suis torturé.
[ʒənələsæˈpa: | mæ ʒələsɑ̃‿zɛʒəsɥ̯i tɔʁtyˈʁeː]
1SG.NOM PART.NEG 3SG.MASC.OBL konw.1SG NEG | but 1SG.NOM 3SG.MASC.OBL feel.1SG and 1SG.NOM COP.1SG torture.PP
I don't know. But I feel it and I'm tortured.
Je détèste et j'aime.
[ʒədeˈtɛstɛʒæm]
1SG hate.1SG and 1SG=love.1SG
I hate and I love.
Peut-être tu te demandes pourquoi je fais cela.
[pøtɛtʁ̩ ty tə deˈmɑ̃d puʁˈkwa ʒəfæseˈla]
maybe 2SG 2SG.OBL ask.2SG why 1SG do.1SG DEM
Perhaps you ask why I do this.
Je ne le sais pas. Mais je le sens et je suis torturé.
[ʒənələsæˈpa: | mæ ʒələsɑ̃‿zɛʒəsɥ̯i tɔʁtyˈʁeː]
1SG.NOM PART.NEG 3SG.MASC.OBL konw.1SG NEG | but 1SG.NOM 3SG.MASC.OBL feel.1SG and 1SG.NOM COP.1SG torture.PP
I don't know. But I feel it and I'm tortured.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Mandarin Chinese (taken from http://rudy.negenborn.net/catullus/text2/m85.htm)
我又恨又愛。
wǒ yòu hèn yòu ài.
[ʊ̯ɔ˥ ɪ̯ɔʊ̯˥˩ xən˥˩ ɪ̯ɔʊ̯˥˩ aɪ̯˥˩]
1SG once_again hate once_again love
I hate and I love.
你問我怎麼可能。
nǐ wèn wǒ zěnme kěnéng.
[ni˨˩ wən˥˩ wɔ˧˥ ͡d̥z̥ən˧˩˦mə kʰə˨˩nəŋ˧˥]
2SG ask 1SG how possible
Maybe you ask how this is possible.
我說不上來,只是感到酷刑加身。
Wǒ shuō bu shànglái, zhǐshì gǎndào kùxíng jiā shēn.
[wɔ˨˩ ʂʊ̯ɔ˥b̥uˈʂaŋ˥˩ laɪ̯˧˥, ͡d̥ʐ̥ɻ̩˨˩ʂɻ̩˥˩ g̥an˨˩d̥aʊ̯˥˩ kʰu˥˩ɕɪŋ˧˥ ͡d̥ɕɪ̯a˥ ʂən˥]
1SG say NEG COMPL, but feel torture add oneself.
I don't know, but I feel it happen, and it tortures me.
Can someone explain me why you don't simply use 我不知道 for the first part of the third sentence? Plus, is the sense of 只是感到酷刑加身 really identical to the original meaning? For me it appears to just mean "I can feel torture coming onto me."
我又恨又愛。
wǒ yòu hèn yòu ài.
[ʊ̯ɔ˥ ɪ̯ɔʊ̯˥˩ xən˥˩ ɪ̯ɔʊ̯˥˩ aɪ̯˥˩]
1SG once_again hate once_again love
I hate and I love.
你問我怎麼可能。
nǐ wèn wǒ zěnme kěnéng.
[ni˨˩ wən˥˩ wɔ˧˥ ͡d̥z̥ən˧˩˦mə kʰə˨˩nəŋ˧˥]
2SG ask 1SG how possible
Maybe you ask how this is possible.
我說不上來,只是感到酷刑加身。
Wǒ shuō bu shànglái, zhǐshì gǎndào kùxíng jiā shēn.
[wɔ˨˩ ʂʊ̯ɔ˥b̥uˈʂaŋ˥˩ laɪ̯˧˥, ͡d̥ʐ̥ɻ̩˨˩ʂɻ̩˥˩ g̥an˨˩d̥aʊ̯˥˩ kʰu˥˩ɕɪŋ˧˥ ͡d̥ɕɪ̯a˥ ʂən˥]
1SG say NEG COMPL, but feel torture add oneself.
I don't know, but I feel it happen, and it tortures me.
Can someone explain me why you don't simply use 我不知道 for the first part of the third sentence? Plus, is the sense of 只是感到酷刑加身 really identical to the original meaning? For me it appears to just mean "I can feel torture coming onto me."
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
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- rupestrian
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 22 Jan 2017 19:29
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Kveyr
1. Narguem eo nelem.
1SG-not like and 1SG-love
2. Helarer suyur oyde da ronem.
2SG-ask maybe why ACC-this 1SG-do
3. Neyalem, ador da yerlem abeth eo ier ulgoy kem.
1SG-know(NEG), but ACC-this 1SG-feel INF-happen and me 1SG-(much hurt)
1. Narguem eo nelem.
1SG-not like and 1SG-love
2. Helarer suyur oyde da ronem.
2SG-ask maybe why ACC-this 1SG-do
3. Neyalem, ador da yerlem abeth eo ier ulgoy kem.
1SG-know(NEG), but ACC-this 1SG-feel INF-happen and me 1SG-(much hurt)
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Paatherye
ओकु काढज़ वा नामज़.
Ēku kādhas wā nāmas.
[ˈeːku ˈkaːθas waː ˈnaːmas]
1SG.NOM hate.1SG and love.1SG
I hate and I love
आपे थू पिरकेज़ ऊ दा क्राति क़तासज़ ओकु था.
Āpe thū pirkes ū dā krāti kantāsas ēku thā.
[ˈaːpe tʰuː ˈpiːɾkes uː ðaː ˈkraːti kanˈtaːsas ˈeːku tʰaː]
maybe 2SG.FEM.NOM ask REFL 2SG.FEM.ACC why do.COND.1SG 1SG.NOM DEM.PROX.FEM.ACC
Perhaps you ask why I may do this
नेनी वैठेमे क्राति, केड़ंता था ठिड़िमे ओकु पै ध्रीकेंता.
Nenī waytheme krāti, keramtā thā thirime ēku pay dhrīkemtā.
[ˈneniː ˈwai̯tʰeme ˈkraːti, keˈramtaː tʰaː ˈtʰirime ˈeːku pai̯ θriːˈkemtaː]
NEG.PPRES know.INF, feel.GEDV DEM.PROX.FEM.ACC happen.INF 1SG.NOM COP.1SG torture.GEDV
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured
ओकु काढज़ वा नामज़.
Ēku kādhas wā nāmas.
[ˈeːku ˈkaːθas waː ˈnaːmas]
1SG.NOM hate.1SG and love.1SG
I hate and I love
आपे थू पिरकेज़ ऊ दा क्राति क़तासज़ ओकु था.
Āpe thū pirkes ū dā krāti kantāsas ēku thā.
[ˈaːpe tʰuː ˈpiːɾkes uː ðaː ˈkraːti kanˈtaːsas ˈeːku tʰaː]
maybe 2SG.FEM.NOM ask REFL 2SG.FEM.ACC why do.COND.1SG 1SG.NOM DEM.PROX.FEM.ACC
Perhaps you ask why I may do this
नेनी वैठेमे क्राति, केड़ंता था ठिड़िमे ओकु पै ध्रीकेंता.
Nenī waytheme krāti, keramtā thā thirime ēku pay dhrīkemtā.
[ˈneniː ˈwai̯tʰeme ˈkraːti, keˈramtaː tʰaː ˈtʰirime ˈeːku pai̯ θriːˈkemtaː]
NEG.PPRES know.INF, feel.GEDV DEM.PROX.FEM.ACC happen.INF 1SG.NOM COP.1SG torture.GEDV
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
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- mayan
- Posts: 2080
- Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
- Location: USA
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
I think 我不知道 would work fine, but 我说不上来 is more idiomatic.Iyionaku wrote:Can someone explain me why you don't simply use 我不知道 for the first part of the third sentence?
Edit: Also, 我说不上来 is more like "I can't say".
Last edited by GrandPiano on 25 May 2017 23:44, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Ganur Lon
Kusk a kunc. Ec me ut nup va'sitsu va'jen kavo.
Kwektu ba kempu van'avoc ar ilke.
/kusk a kunc/ /ec me ut nup vaˈsif.su vaˈjen ˈka.vo/
/ˈkwek.tu ba ˈkem.pu vanˈʔav.oc ar ˈil.ke/
k-usk a k-unc
1SG.SBJ-hate AND 1SG.SBJ-love.romantically
ec me 0-ut n-up va=s-ifs-u va'jen k-av-o
DEM TOP 3SG.SBJ-can INF-be that=2SG.SBJ-ask-3SG.NTOP.OBJ why 1SG.SBJ-do-3SG.TOP.OBJ
kw-ekt-u ba k-emp-u van=0-av-oc ar 0-ilk-e
1SG.SBJ.NEG-know-3SG.NTOP.OBJ but 1SG.SBJ-feel-3SG.NTOP.OBJ that=3SG.SBJ-do-become AND 3SG.SBJ-torture-1SG.OBJ
Note: "and" and "but" are the same word, bar, which elides the first and/or last letter when preceded and/or followed by a consonant.
The word for "love romantically" rather than the generic word for love is used because I happen to read and love Catullus, so I know the context :P
Kusk a kunc. Ec me ut nup va'sitsu va'jen kavo.
Kwektu ba kempu van'avoc ar ilke.
/kusk a kunc/ /ec me ut nup vaˈsif.su vaˈjen ˈka.vo/
/ˈkwek.tu ba ˈkem.pu vanˈʔav.oc ar ˈil.ke/
k-usk a k-unc
1SG.SBJ-hate AND 1SG.SBJ-love.romantically
ec me 0-ut n-up va=s-ifs-u va'jen k-av-o
DEM TOP 3SG.SBJ-can INF-be that=2SG.SBJ-ask-3SG.NTOP.OBJ why 1SG.SBJ-do-3SG.TOP.OBJ
kw-ekt-u ba k-emp-u van=0-av-oc ar 0-ilk-e
1SG.SBJ.NEG-know-3SG.NTOP.OBJ but 1SG.SBJ-feel-3SG.NTOP.OBJ that=3SG.SBJ-do-become AND 3SG.SBJ-torture-1SG.OBJ
Note: "and" and "but" are the same word, bar, which elides the first and/or last letter when preceded and/or followed by a consonant.
The word for "love romantically" rather than the generic word for love is used because I happen to read and love Catullus, so I know the context :P
:heb: I have gained self-respect and left. :yid:
- Dormouse559
- moderator
- Posts: 2946
- Joined: 10 Nov 2012 20:52
- Location: California
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
Silvish has no native verb for "to hate". The French borrowings déttestâ and aî were once used, but they sound hopelessly old-fashioned nowadays. Most of the time, pà lamâ (lit: not like) is used, but in this case, I've picked sentî la colera (feel hate) to make the opposition to love clearer.
Silvish
Jo sento la colera e jo sento l'amèu.
/ʑuˈsɛ̃.tu la.kuˈlɛ.ʁa e.ʑuˈsɛ̃.tu lɑ̃ˈmœ/
1SG.NOM feel-1SG DEF-F hate and 1SG.NOM feel-1SG DEF=love
I hate and I love.
Puotéccre ca tu m'ailla pa chê jo fî czâ.
/puˈtek.kʁə ka.tõˈma.ʎa paˈke ʑuˈfi ˈɕɛ/
maybe SBRD 2SG-NOM 1SG=ask.SBJV-2SG for what 1SG.NOM do.1SG DEM-DISJ
Perhaps you ask why I may do this
Jo sâ pà, má jo sento ca czo se passa e czo me tortua.
/ʑuˈsɛ ˈpa | me.ʑuˈsɛ̃.tu ka.ɕo.səˈpa.sa e.ɕõ.me.tuˈto.a/
1SG.NOM know.1SG NEG but 1SG feel-1SG SBRD DEM-NOM 3-REFL happen-3SG and DEM-NOM 1SG.ACC torture-3SG
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured
Silvish
Jo sento la colera e jo sento l'amèu.
/ʑuˈsɛ̃.tu la.kuˈlɛ.ʁa e.ʑuˈsɛ̃.tu lɑ̃ˈmœ/
1SG.NOM feel-1SG DEF-F hate and 1SG.NOM feel-1SG DEF=love
I hate and I love.
Puotéccre ca tu m'ailla pa chê jo fî czâ.
/puˈtek.kʁə ka.tõˈma.ʎa paˈke ʑuˈfi ˈɕɛ/
maybe SBRD 2SG-NOM 1SG=ask.SBJV-2SG for what 1SG.NOM do.1SG DEM-DISJ
Perhaps you ask why I may do this
Jo sâ pà, má jo sento ca czo se passa e czo me tortua.
/ʑuˈsɛ ˈpa | me.ʑuˈsɛ̃.tu ka.ɕo.səˈpa.sa e.ɕõ.me.tuˈto.a/
1SG.NOM know.1SG NEG but 1SG feel-1SG SBRD DEM-NOM 3-REFL happen-3SG and DEM-NOM 1SG.ACC torture-3SG
I do not know but I feel it happen and I am tortured
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- mayan
- Posts: 2080
- Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
- Location: USA
Re: Catullus 85 - Odi et Amo
"Aî" meaning "to hate" is interesting compared to 爱 ài "to love".Dormouse559 wrote:Silvish has no native verb for "to hate". The French borrowings déttestâ and aî were once used, but they sound hopelessly old-fashioned nowadays.