Place manner time

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Iyionaku
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Place manner time

Post by Iyionaku »

:eng: I spent the entire sunday in bed with Netflix until dawn.

I'm interested in how your conlangs (and also natlangs) order the adverbials in this sentence. Also for case-rich languages I'd love to see how you treat cases of proper nouns (i.e. the instrumental case here).
'
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Reyzadren
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Reyzadren »

Removed.
Last edited by Reyzadren on 07 Aug 2017 03:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Iyionaku
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Yélian

Yiastai æ'iomilvatesce na narác pun reo pran fecun Netflix.
[ˈɕɪ̯astaɪ̯ əɪ̯ɔmˈilvɐˌteskə na nɐˈɾă‿pʉn ˈɾe.o pɾan ˈɸekʉn ˈnɛtʰlɨks]
PST-spend-1SG DEF.CONC=sunday-entire till dawn in 1SG.POSS bed with Netflix

:con: Caelian

Rar mancilbuit midnyapit sipuntir Netflurix ilysalyep.
[rah manʝilˈbʊɪ̯t midɲaˈpʰit ʒipʰʊnˈtʰiɾ neɸluˈrikəs iʎʒaˈʎɛp]
1SG.NOM sunday.ACC dawn.TERM PST-spend_time.1SG>3SG Netflix.COM bed.INN
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
masako
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Re: Place manner time

Post by masako »

마요마구 나 도바휴 자여 요무 마아 너다버리자 그라여
/majomaːkʷa na topaːɦʷɛ t͡saːje joːmʷa maːʔa netapɛliːt͡sa kulaːjɛ/
mayomakua na topahue tsaye yomua ma'a netapelitsa kulaye
four-day-all 1s bed-LOC until morning with Netflix spend.time-PST
I spent the entire sunday in bed with Netflix until dawn.
g

o

n

e
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Lambuzhao »

:con: Rozwi


Hue vraozjila ɂol zweθen zurweyebe netefliqšitiθ metiroay dohtra qoqiš.
PRP dawn<NMLZ>ACC PRP bed-LOC see<PRS.PTCP> <Netflix>COLL.ACC spend<PST>AOR.1SG=1SG.NOM day.ACC whole


So.... what was supposed to be INST ? Netflix?
In this case, Netflix was ACC as OBJ of the PTCP 'seeing' / 'watching'
a Comitative Dative might be used in some langs ( E.G. :grc: )
an Ablative of Means or Instrument might be another option (E.G. :lat: )

But ya doesn't has to call it Instrumental.

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GamerGeek
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Re: Place manner time

Post by GamerGeek »

Lambuzhao wrote:So.... what was supposed to be INST ? Netflix?
bed?
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spanick
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Re: Place manner time

Post by spanick »

Lambuzhao wrote: So.... what was supposed to be INST ? Netflix?
In this case, Netflix was ACC as OBJ of the PTCP 'seeing' / 'watching'
a Comitative Dative might be used in some langs ( E.G. :grc: )
an Ablative of Means or Instrument might be another option (E.G. :lat: )
My conlang Gutisk uses the instrumental for the comitative and I borrowed that straight from Old Church Slavonic.
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Lao Kou
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Lao Kou »

Iyionaku wrote:Also for case-rich languages I'd love to see how you treat cases of proper nouns (i.e. the instrumental case here).
Lambuzhao wrote:So.... what was supposed to be INST ? Netflix?
Iyionaku said "proper noun", so we can only assume.
GamerGeek wrote:bed?
Not a proper noun, so I'm guessing not so much.

I think the choices for Géarthnuns here are, "in.bed.TV.watching", with Netflix in the ACC, or "in bed 'chez' Neflix" in the postpositional. I would imagine for Netflix to be used in the instrumental, you'd have a sentence like, "with Netflix, you get such and such a monthly package" (if that's how Netflix works).

Image Géarthnuns

Sí lé che daljethset ersfanethet chö zhölökfabsöb rho höi Netfliksüt vílíiçtelala'u híau gdunef.
1SG-NOM AUX.PAST DEF Sunday-ACC entire-ACC DEF dawn-POST until PTCL Netflix-ACC bed.TV.watch.PRES.PTPL-ADV all-ADV spend
I spent the entire Sunday in bed with Netflix until dawn.

or

Sí lé che daljethset ersfanethet chí vílsív Netfliksüb jlau chö zhölökfabsöb rho híau gdunef.
1SG-NOM AUX.PAST DEF Sunday-ACC entire-ACC DEF bed-LOC Netflix-POST "chez" DEF dawn-POST until all-ADV spend
I spent the entire Sunday in bed with Netflix until dawn.
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Iyionaku
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Iyionaku »

Should be Netflix, yes, and yet I didn't even use the instrumental case in Caelian [O.o] (Comitative case it was).
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Re: Place manner time

Post by GamerGeek »

Lao Kou wrote:
Lambuzhao wrote:So.... what was supposed to be INST ? Netflix?
Iyionaku said "proper noun", so we can only assume..
[+1]
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Lambuzhao »

would imagine for Netflix to be used in the instrumental, you'd have a sentence like, "with Netflix, you get such and such a monthly package" (if that's how Netflix works).
Indeed. Or

I was able to watch the pay-per-view pankration bout between Sonny Day and Stormie Knight via/using/with Netflix.

You get so much more with/using/via Netflix (but I could also see some kind of Comitative/Locatival 'chez' here as well).
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Lao Kou
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Lao Kou »

I was speaking specifically to Géarthnuns, so:
me wrote:would imagine for Netflix to be used in the instrumental, you'd have a sentence like, "with Netflix, you get such and such a monthly package" (if that's how Netflix works).
[tick] (agrees with self) [B)]
Lambuzhao wrote:Indeed. Or I was able to watch the pay-per-view pankration bout between Sonny Day and Stormie Knight via/using/with Netflix.
I really have absolutely no idea what you're referring to, but that sounds like [tick]
Lambuzhao wrote:You get so much more with/using/via Netflix (but I could also see some kind of Comitative/Locatival 'chez' here as well).
I quite agree. Géarthnuns has no comitative case, but locative vs. "chez" is a probably a rather legit question in this instance. I thought about it as I translated for this exercise. I suspect the "vílí-" verbs will play it, mostly, non-sexual. "watch TV in bed", "read in bed", "have breakfast in bed", "get some bed rest", "convalesce in bed", "loll about in bed", etc., without bodice or codpiece ripping. While perhaps, the notion of "spending the whole day in bed" may elicit sniggers (Netflix, lube, and thou).

Too, I would gather that whether to use the instrumental or "chez", if you asked, would have native speakers as to nuance of meaning going, "Well ~~~~, I'm not sure, maybe this~~~." but would be able to hone it on it like a hummingbird if the usage were incorrect. And I, at least, cannot arrive at that yet without actually using it.
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Imralu
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Imralu »

I can't back this up and I'm not sure what's giving me my Sprachgefühl (it's far to early to really have one) but this feels right to me in :tan: Swahili:

Nilitazama Netflix kitandani Jumapili nzima mpaka alfajiri.
ni-li-tazam-a Netflix kitandani Jumapili n-zima mpaka alfajiri
1s-PST-watch-Ø Netflix bed.LOC(CL16/17/18) Sunday(CL9) CL9-whole until dawn

I watched Netflix in bed all Sunday until dawn.

Yeah, I avoided using manner by changing the verb, but I think that's how you might say it. You could also say you "lay in bed watching" (nililala kitandani nikitazama) but it seems needless to me. Having place, manner and time in a sentence in Swahili - I can't say I've ever been aware of it, and things like this often seem to be divided into their own clauses using a kind of finite participle / simultaneous tense, so, I don't know
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Iyionaku
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Ular

我星期日卯得妈纱寮椅歌谕等看有我得日下对床在。
Lăn tŏngkàjmù máw tā Nătăpállŏkàthò phŏn khû jù lăn tā mùwō thŏ phŏrh phū.

[lɛ̂̄n tìŋkɑ̀ɪ̯mù mɑ́ʊ̯ tɛ̄ nɛ̂̄tɛ̀pɑ́lî́kɑ̀sì fɔ̀n kʰǔ̀ jù lɛ̂̄n tɛ̄ mùwɔ̄ sî̄ fɔ̀r pʰū]
1SG sunday SUP TOP Netflix wait see PST 1SG PART dawn for bed in
I watched Netflix in bed all Sunday until dawn.

Phonetic transcription is indeed exhausting [O.o] Plus, I use the low tone way too often, my conpeople will sound depressed all the time [o.O]
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Itlani Jim
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Re: Place manner time

Post by Itlani Jim »

"I spent the entire sunday in bed with Netflix until dawn."

In Itlani:

"Ta kulit chendjaspalova makhá ta yazheaan pe ta pushtan losh Netfliksey eryavu."
(The whole stone-day until the future-dawn on the fur with Netflix expend-past-I.")

Tsiasuk
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