difficult to know.

A forum for translations, translation challenges etc. Good place to increase your conlang's vocabulary.
Post Reply
User avatar
Omzinesý
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4079
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

difficult to know.

Post by Omzinesý »

English makes a clear difference between infinitive and gerund structures where the main verb finds place even in the beginning of the sentence or in the end. There are languages that don't. It is interesting to see how both kinds work. And which way is the most popular among conlangs.

Languages with a clear formal difference, They deed a formal subject
:eng: It is difficult to know.
:eng: Knowing is difficult.

Languages with a clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject
:fin: On vaikea tietää.
:fin: Tietäminen on vaikeaa.

Languages without clear formal difference, They need a formal subject.
:swe: Det är svårt att veta.
:swe: Att veta är svårt.

Languages without clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject.

Languages which can use only one construction.




If a language fits in more than one categories, put it in those. Somebody surely comes claiming that there is word 'vetning' in Swedish.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 11 Feb 2011 16:33, edited 1 time in total.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
User avatar
Ear of the Sphinx
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1587
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 01:41
Location: Nose of the Sun

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Ear of the Sphinx »

Languages with a clear formal difference, They deed a formal subject
:eng: It is difficult to know.
:eng: Knowing is difficult.

Languages with a clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject
:fin: On vaikea tietää.
:fin: Tietäminen on vaikeaa.

:pol: Trudno (jest) wiedzieć.
:pol: "Wiedzenie" jest trudne. (gerund of "wiedzieć" isn't usually used, though)

Languages without clear formal difference, They need a formal subject.
:swe: Det är svårt att veta.
:swe: Att veta är svårt.

Languages without clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject.

Languages which can use only one construction.

Image Emyt: Gurboś gyvinaktǫraf. ("knowing difficult-verbial-generic"; there is no formal infinitive in Emyt)
Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.
User avatar
Czwartek
sinic
sinic
Posts: 344
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 15:50

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Czwartek »

Languages with a clear formal difference, They deed a formal subject
:eng: It is difficult to know.
:eng: Knowing is difficult.

Languages with a clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject
:fin: On vaikea tietää.
:fin: Tietäminen on vaikeaa.

:pol: Trudno (jest) wiedzieć.
:pol: "Wiedzenie" jest trudne. (gerund of "wiedzieć" isn't usually used, though)

Languages without clear formal difference, They need a formal subject.
:swe: Det är svårt att veta.
:swe: Att veta är svårt.

:nor: Det er vanskelig å vite.
:nor: Det å vite er vanskelig. (Much the same as Swedish)

Languages without clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject.

Languages which can use only one construction.
Image Emyt: Gurboś gyvinaktǫraf. ("knowing difficult-verbial-generic"; there is no formal infinitive in Emyt)
User avatar
Omzinesý
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4079
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Omzinesý »

So the is a formal subject in Norwegian 'nominal structure' as well.
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
User avatar
Czwartek
sinic
sinic
Posts: 344
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 15:50

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Czwartek »

Omzinesý wrote:So the is a formal subject in Norwegian 'nominal structure' as well.
I guess. I'm nowhere near fluent, but I'm sure I've seen and heard Det å (the/that to) more than just å (to) to form the subject of a sentence.
User avatar
Ossicone
vice admin
vice admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 05:20
Location: I've heard it both ways.
Contact:

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Ossicone »

I'm going to leave mine separate cause I don't know where you want to put them.

:esp: Es difícil saber.
Saber es difícil.

Spanish has a separate gerund form, but I don't think you'd use it here.

----

:con: Inyauk:
ní-at súsiknaaniraana
3sg-PSD know-ADJ-difficult-CNT

súsiknaanira
know-ADJ-difficult

This one is hard to translate because 'It is difficult to know.' Can be a couple of things depending on context.
I translated in reference to a single fact. The second one seems more natural to Inyauk

So you can put those where you feel they go best. :)
User avatar
Omzinesý
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4079
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Omzinesý »

Actually, English may be the only lanhuage at the list with just gerund used as 'nominal verb' or what it is. The Finnish form 'tietäminen' is inflecting fourth infinitive. If Inyuak is in a wrong place, correct it.

Languages with a clear formal difference, They need a formal subject
:eng: It is difficult to know.
:eng: Knowing is difficult.

Languages with a clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject
:fin: On vaikea tietää.
:fin: Tietäminen on vaikeaa.

:pol: Trudno (jest) wiedzieć.
:pol: "Wiedzenie" jest trudne. (gerund of "wiedzieć" isn't usually used, though)

:con: Inyauk: ní-at súsiknaaniraana
3sg-PSD know-ADJ-difficult-CNT
:con: súsiknaanira
know-ADJ-difficult

Languages without clear formal difference, They need a formal subject.
:swe: Det är svårt att veta.
:swe: Att veta är svårt.

:nor: Det er vanskelig å vite.
:nor: Det å vite er vanskelig. (Much the same as Swedish)

Languages without clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject.
:esp: Es difícil saber.
:esp: Saber es difícil.

Languages which can use only one construction.
Image Emyt: Gurboś gyvinaktǫraf. ("knowing difficult-verbial-generic"; there is no formal infinitive in Emyt)
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
User avatar
Omzinesý
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4079
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Omzinesý »

Actually, English may be the only lanhuage at the list with just gerund used as 'nominal verb' or what it is. The Finnish form 'tietäminen' is inflecting fourth infinitive. If Inyuak is in a wrong place, correct it.

Languages with a clear formal difference, They need a formal subject
:eng: It is difficult to know.
:eng: Knowing is difficult.

Languages with a clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject
:fin: On vaikea tietää.
:fin: Tietäminen on vaikeaa.

:pol: Trudno (jest) wiedzieć.
:pol: "Wiedzenie" jest trudne. (gerund of "wiedzieć" isn't usually used, though)

:con: Inyauk: ní-at súsiknaaniraana
3sg-PSD know-ADJ-difficult-CNT
:con: súsiknaanira
know-ADJ-difficult

Languages without clear formal difference, They need a formal subject.
:swe: Det är svårt att veta.
:swe: Att veta är svårt.

:nor: Det er vanskelig å vite.
:nor: Det å vite er vanskelig. (Much the same as Swedish)

Languages without clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject.
:esp: Es difícil saber.
:esp: Saber es difícil.

Languages which can use only one construction.
Image Emyt: Gurboś gyvinaktǫraf. ("knowing difficult-verbial-generic"; there is no formal infinitive in Emyt)
:con: Omsin: śurno i'heso. ((One) would know which is difficult.)
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
xinda
roman
roman
Posts: 914
Joined: 15 Jan 2011 15:59
Location: 伊薩卡

Re: difficult to know.

Post by xinda »

Actually, English may be the only lanhuage at the list with just gerund used as 'nominal verb' or what it is. The Finnish form 'tietäminen' is inflecting fourth infinitive. If Inyuak is in a wrong place, correct it.

Languages with a clear formal difference, They need a formal subject
:eng: It is difficult to know.
:eng: Knowing is difficult.

Languages with a clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject
:fin: On vaikea tietää.
:fin: Tietäminen on vaikeaa.

:pol: Trudno (jest) wiedzieć.
:pol: "Wiedzenie" jest trudne. (gerund of "wiedzieć" isn't usually used, though)

:roc: 很難知道
:roc: 知道很難

:con: Inyauk: ní-at súsiknaaniraana
3sg-PSD know-ADJ-difficult-CNT
:con: súsiknaanira
know-ADJ-difficult

Languages without clear formal difference, They need a formal subject.
:swe: Det är svårt att veta.
:swe: Att veta är svårt.

:nor: Det er vanskelig å vite.
:nor: Det å vite er vanskelig. (Much the same as Swedish)

Languages without clear formal difference, don't need a formal subject.
:esp: Es difícil saber.
:esp: Saber es difícil.

Languages which can use only one construction.
Image Emyt: Gurboś gyvinaktǫraf. ("knowing difficult-verbial-generic"; there is no formal infinitive in Emyt)
:con: Omsin: śurno i'heso. ((One) would know which is difficult.)
力在公蝦米????

flags
Image
User avatar
Selinki
hieroglyphic
hieroglyphic
Posts: 64
Joined: 27 Feb 2012 16:58
Location: Estonia

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Selinki »

It is difficult to know.
Knowing is difficult.

:con: Selinki.

Baj lexinki tavao (No formal subject needed)
[baj l"eksiNki tav"ao]
be-3SG hard know-INF

Tavaote baj lexinki
[tav"aote baj l"eksiNki]
the.process.of.knowin be-3SG hard
masako
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1813
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 16:42

Re: difficult to know.

Post by masako »

Kala:

ke unya munye
TOP to.know to.be.difficult
Knowing is difficult


unya ke munye a
to.know TOP to.be.difficult to.be
It is difficult to know
g

o

n

e
User avatar
DanH34
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 179
Joined: 13 Jan 2012 01:12
Location: North of The Wall

Re: difficult to know.

Post by DanH34 »

:con:Zidhgebzhail - Can use both constructions (I'm using different words, but the grammar remains the same):

It is good to see.
my ha-zhAin shierrys.
m-y ha-zh-Ai-n shierr-y-s
3.INAN-ABS.SG.M COP1-NOMINALISER-see-SIMPLE good-ABS.SG.M-ADJ

Seeing is good
ZhAin ha-shierrys
Zh-Ai-n ha-shierr-y-s
NOMINALISER-see-SIMPLE COP1-good-ABS.SG.M-ADJ
Life's a bitch, then you die.

Zidhgebzhail Orthography
User avatar
Imralu
roman
roman
Posts: 960
Joined: 17 Nov 2013 22:32

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Imralu »

:tan: Swahili

Ni vigumu kujua.
ni vi-gumu ku-ju-a
COP CL8-hard INF(CL15)-know-Ø

It's difficult to know.

Class 8 is often used as a kind of default adverbial class.


Kujua ni kugumu.
ku-ju-a ni ku-gumu
INF(CL15)-know-Ø COP CL15-hard

Knowing is difficult.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
________
MY MUSIC | MY PLANTS
User avatar
Xing
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4153
Joined: 22 Aug 2010 18:46

Re: difficult to know.

Post by Xing »

:con: Waku

Amoko tinga koma.
difficult NOMI know
[aˈmoːko tiŋɑ ˈkoːma]
Post Reply