Kinship terms
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- mayan
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Kinship terms
Not exactly a translation challenge, but I wasn't sure where else to put this, since it's for both conlangs and natlangs.
How does your lang divide up kinship terms? Is it similar to English, simple like Hawaiian, insane like the Chinese languages?
English
brother - male sibling
sister - female sibling
father (formal), dad (informal) - male parent
mother (formal), mom (informal) - female parent
son - male child
daughter - female child
uncle - parent's brother or parent's sibling's husband
aunt - parent's sister or parent's sibling's wife
cousin - uncle/aunt's child
nephew - sibling or sibling-in-law's son
niece - sibling or sibling-in-law's daughter
grandfather (formal), grandpa (informal) - parent's father
grandmother (formal), grandma (informal) - parent's mother
grandson - child's son
granddaughter - child's daughter
husband - male spouse
wife - female spouse
brother-in-law - spouse's brother or sibling's husband
sister-in-law - spouse's sister or sibling's wife
father-in-law - spouse's father
mother-in-law - spouse's mother
son-in-law - child's husband
daughter-in-law - child's wife
Spanish
hermano - brother
hermana - sister
padre/papá - father/dad
madre/mamá - mother/mom
hijo - son
hija - daughter
tío - uncle
tía - aunt
primo - male cousin
prima - female cousin
sobrino - nephew
sobrina - niece
abuelo - grandfather
abuela - grandmother
nieto - grandson
nieta - granddaughter
esposo/marido - husband
esposa/mujer - wife ("mujer" also means "woman" in general)
cuñado - brother-in-law
cuñada - sister-in-law
suegro - father-in-law
suegra - mother-in-law
yerno - son-in-law
nuera - daughter-in-law ("yerna" also exists, but only in some dialects)
:zho: Mandarin
(It seems like a lot of these have both formal and informal counterparts, so I'll stick with the informal term of address. Also note that these vary a lot from region to region and from family to family and I'm just using what seem to be the most common and standard terms.)
哥哥 gēge - older brother
弟弟 dìdi - younger brother
姐姐 jiějie - older sister
妹妹 mèimei - younger sister
爸爸 bàba - dad
妈妈 māma - mom
儿子 érzi - son
女儿 nǚ'ér - daughter
伯伯 bóbo - uncle (father's older brother)
叔叔 shūshu - uncle (father's younger brother)
舅舅 jiùjiu - uncle (sister's brother)
姑丈 gūzhàng - uncle (father's sibling's wife)
姨丈 yízhàng - uncle (mother's sibling's wife)
姑姑 gūgu - aunt (father's sister)
姨妈 yímā - aunt (mother's sister)
伯娘 bóniáng - aunt (father's older sibling's wife)
婶婶 shěnshen - aunt (father's younger sibling's wife)
妗子 jìnzi - aunt (mother's sibling's wife)
堂兄 tángxiōng - older male cousin on father's side
堂弟 tángdì - younger male cousin on father's side
堂姐 tángjiě - older female cousin on father's side
堂妹 tángmèi - younger female cousin on father's side
表兄 biǎoxiōng - older male cousin on mother's side
表弟 biǎodì - younger male cousin on mother's side
表姐 biǎojiě - older female cousin on mother's side
表妹 biǎomèi - younger female cousin on mother's side
侄子 zhízi - nephew (brother's son)
外甥 wàishēng - nephew (sister's son, used by males)
姨甥 yíshēng - nephew (sister's son, used by females)
侄女 zhínǚ - niece (brother's daughter)
外甥女 wàishengnǚ - niece (sister's daughter, used by males)
姨甥女 yíshengnǚ - niece (sister's daughter, used by females)
爷爷 yéye - grandpa (father's father)
外公 wàigōng - grandpa (mother's father)
奶奶 nǎinai - grandma (father's mother)
外婆 wàipó - grandma (mother's mother)
孙子 sūnzi - grandson (son's son)
外孙 wàisūn - grandson (daughter's son)
孙女 sūnnǚ - granddaughter (son's daughter)
外孙女 wàisūnnǚ - granddaughter (daughter's daughter)
老公 lǎogōng - husband
老婆 lǎopó - wife
姐夫 jiěfu - brother-in-law (older sister's husband)
妹夫 mèifu - brother-in-law (younger sister's husband)
大伯 dàbó - brother-in-law (husband's older brother)
小叔 xiǎoshū - brother-in-law (husband's younger brother)
大舅 dàjiù - brother-in-law (wife's older brother)
小舅 xiǎojiù - brother-in-law (wife's younger brother)
嫂子 sǎozi - sister-in-law (older brother's wife)
弟妹 dìmèi - sister-in-law (younger brother's wife)
大姑 dàgū - sister-in-law (husband's older sister)
小姑 xiǎogū - sister-in-law (husband's younger sister)
大姨 dàyí - sister-in-law (wife's older sister)
小姨 xiǎoyí - sister-in-law (wife's younger sister)
公公 gōnggong - father-in-law (husband's father)
岳父 yuèfù - father-in-law (wife's father)
婆婆 pópo - mother-in-law (husband's mother)
岳母 yuèmǔ - mother-in-law (wife's mother)
女婿 nǚxu - son-in-law
媳妇 xífù - daughter-in-law
How does your lang divide up kinship terms? Is it similar to English, simple like Hawaiian, insane like the Chinese languages?
English
brother - male sibling
sister - female sibling
father (formal), dad (informal) - male parent
mother (formal), mom (informal) - female parent
son - male child
daughter - female child
uncle - parent's brother or parent's sibling's husband
aunt - parent's sister or parent's sibling's wife
cousin - uncle/aunt's child
nephew - sibling or sibling-in-law's son
niece - sibling or sibling-in-law's daughter
grandfather (formal), grandpa (informal) - parent's father
grandmother (formal), grandma (informal) - parent's mother
grandson - child's son
granddaughter - child's daughter
husband - male spouse
wife - female spouse
brother-in-law - spouse's brother or sibling's husband
sister-in-law - spouse's sister or sibling's wife
father-in-law - spouse's father
mother-in-law - spouse's mother
son-in-law - child's husband
daughter-in-law - child's wife
Spanish
hermano - brother
hermana - sister
padre/papá - father/dad
madre/mamá - mother/mom
hijo - son
hija - daughter
tío - uncle
tía - aunt
primo - male cousin
prima - female cousin
sobrino - nephew
sobrina - niece
abuelo - grandfather
abuela - grandmother
nieto - grandson
nieta - granddaughter
esposo/marido - husband
esposa/mujer - wife ("mujer" also means "woman" in general)
cuñado - brother-in-law
cuñada - sister-in-law
suegro - father-in-law
suegra - mother-in-law
yerno - son-in-law
nuera - daughter-in-law ("yerna" also exists, but only in some dialects)
:zho: Mandarin
(It seems like a lot of these have both formal and informal counterparts, so I'll stick with the informal term of address. Also note that these vary a lot from region to region and from family to family and I'm just using what seem to be the most common and standard terms.)
哥哥 gēge - older brother
弟弟 dìdi - younger brother
姐姐 jiějie - older sister
妹妹 mèimei - younger sister
爸爸 bàba - dad
妈妈 māma - mom
儿子 érzi - son
女儿 nǚ'ér - daughter
伯伯 bóbo - uncle (father's older brother)
叔叔 shūshu - uncle (father's younger brother)
舅舅 jiùjiu - uncle (sister's brother)
姑丈 gūzhàng - uncle (father's sibling's wife)
姨丈 yízhàng - uncle (mother's sibling's wife)
姑姑 gūgu - aunt (father's sister)
姨妈 yímā - aunt (mother's sister)
伯娘 bóniáng - aunt (father's older sibling's wife)
婶婶 shěnshen - aunt (father's younger sibling's wife)
妗子 jìnzi - aunt (mother's sibling's wife)
堂兄 tángxiōng - older male cousin on father's side
堂弟 tángdì - younger male cousin on father's side
堂姐 tángjiě - older female cousin on father's side
堂妹 tángmèi - younger female cousin on father's side
表兄 biǎoxiōng - older male cousin on mother's side
表弟 biǎodì - younger male cousin on mother's side
表姐 biǎojiě - older female cousin on mother's side
表妹 biǎomèi - younger female cousin on mother's side
侄子 zhízi - nephew (brother's son)
外甥 wàishēng - nephew (sister's son, used by males)
姨甥 yíshēng - nephew (sister's son, used by females)
侄女 zhínǚ - niece (brother's daughter)
外甥女 wàishengnǚ - niece (sister's daughter, used by males)
姨甥女 yíshengnǚ - niece (sister's daughter, used by females)
爷爷 yéye - grandpa (father's father)
外公 wàigōng - grandpa (mother's father)
奶奶 nǎinai - grandma (father's mother)
外婆 wàipó - grandma (mother's mother)
孙子 sūnzi - grandson (son's son)
外孙 wàisūn - grandson (daughter's son)
孙女 sūnnǚ - granddaughter (son's daughter)
外孙女 wàisūnnǚ - granddaughter (daughter's daughter)
老公 lǎogōng - husband
老婆 lǎopó - wife
姐夫 jiěfu - brother-in-law (older sister's husband)
妹夫 mèifu - brother-in-law (younger sister's husband)
大伯 dàbó - brother-in-law (husband's older brother)
小叔 xiǎoshū - brother-in-law (husband's younger brother)
大舅 dàjiù - brother-in-law (wife's older brother)
小舅 xiǎojiù - brother-in-law (wife's younger brother)
嫂子 sǎozi - sister-in-law (older brother's wife)
弟妹 dìmèi - sister-in-law (younger brother's wife)
大姑 dàgū - sister-in-law (husband's older sister)
小姑 xiǎogū - sister-in-law (husband's younger sister)
大姨 dàyí - sister-in-law (wife's older sister)
小姨 xiǎoyí - sister-in-law (wife's younger sister)
公公 gōnggong - father-in-law (husband's father)
岳父 yuèfù - father-in-law (wife's father)
婆婆 pópo - mother-in-law (husband's mother)
岳母 yuèmǔ - mother-in-law (wife's mother)
女婿 nǚxu - son-in-law
媳妇 xífù - daughter-in-law
Last edited by GrandPiano on 10 May 2016 13:07, edited 1 time in total.
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5121
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Kinship terms
So here's the kinship terms I am aware of that are used in Papuan Malay:
Papuan Malay/Indonesian
kaka older sibling, older cousin (parent's older sibling's child)
ade younger sibling, younger cousin (parent's younger sibling's child)
kaka-ade siblings, cousins
bapa father
mama mother
orang tua parents (lit. people old)
ana child
bapa ade father's younger brother1
mama ade father's younger brother1
bapa tua father's older brother1
mama tua mother's older sister1
om mother's brother (from dutch)1
tante father's sister (from dutch)1
keponakan/sepupu nephew, niece (seldom used), cousin, someone related with unknown relation status
tete grandfather
nene grandmother
cucu grandchild
ipar spouse's sibling, sibling's spouse
1 These are sometimes also used for in-laws.
Papuan Malay/Indonesian
kaka older sibling, older cousin (parent's older sibling's child)
ade younger sibling, younger cousin (parent's younger sibling's child)
kaka-ade siblings, cousins
bapa father
mama mother
orang tua parents (lit. people old)
ana child
bapa ade father's younger brother1
mama ade father's younger brother1
bapa tua father's older brother1
mama tua mother's older sister1
om mother's brother (from dutch)1
tante father's sister (from dutch)1
keponakan/sepupu nephew, niece (seldom used), cousin, someone related with unknown relation status
tete grandfather
nene grandmother
cucu grandchild
ipar spouse's sibling, sibling's spouse
1 These are sometimes also used for in-laws.
Creyeditor
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Re: Kinship terms
Japanese
Kinship terms are a bit of a rat's nest in Japanese, because formality and the relationship of the speakers come into play. There are four basic situations:
1. talking to a friend or family member about your own family
2. talking to a friend or family member about someone else's family
3. talking in a formal situation about your own family
4. talking in a formal situation about someone else's family
4+. talking in a honorific style about someone else's family
Same generation:
お兄さん oniisan - older brother (1,2,4)†
兄 ani - older brother (3)
弟 otōto - younger brother (1, 2, 3)*†
お姉さん onēsan - older sister (1,2,4)†
姉 ane - older sister (3)
妹 imōto - younger sister (1, 2, 3)*†
いとこ(従妹) itoko - cousin*†
はとこ hatoko - 1st cousin*†
Generation above:
お父さん otōsan - father (1, 2, 4)†
父親 chichioya - father (1)
父 chichi - father (3)
お母さん okāsan - mother (1, 2, 4)†
母親 hahaoya - mother (1)
母 haha - mother (3)
おばさん obasan - aunt†
おじさん ojisan - uncle†
Aunts and uncles can be distinguished in writing, i.e. 伯母さん/叔父さん obasan/ojisan are aunts and uncles who are older than the parent they are connected with, while 叔母さん/叔父さん are aunts and uncles who are younger than the parent they are connected with. This is not often done though, and not everyone is immediately familiar with the difference between 伯 and 叔.
Generation below:
息子 musuko - son (1, 2, 3)*
ご子息様 goshisokusama - son (4+)
娘 musume - daughter (1, 2, 3)*
ご息女様 gosokujosama - daughter (4+)
甥(っ子) oi(kko) - nephew (1, 2, 3) (the ko suffix marks it as a child but can't be used for 3)
甥御様 oigosama - nephew (4+)
姪(っ子) mei(kko) - niece (ditto)
姪御様 oigosama - nephew (4+)
(there is no good term for 4; adding -san is weird, using oigo/meigo is stiff)
Two generations above:
ばあば bāba - grandma (1)
おばあちゃん obāchan - grandmother (1, 2)
おばあさん (お婆さん、お祖母さん) obāsan - grandmother (1, 2, 4)†
祖母 sobo - grandmother (3)
じいじ jiiji - grandpa (1)
おじいちゃん ojiichan - grandfather (1, 2)
おじいさん (お爺さん、お祖父さん) ojiisan - grandfather (1, 2, 4)†
祖父 sofu - grandfather (3)
Two generations below:
孫 mago - grandchild (1, 2, 3)
お孫さん omagosan - grandchild (4)†
Marriage
妻 tsuma - wife (1, 3)
家内 kanai - wife (1, 3) (only old people use this; it literally means "the inside of the house")
かみさん/カミさん kamisan - wife (1, 2 (I think 2))
女房 nyōbo - wife (1)
奥さん okusan - wife (1, 2, 4)†
(ご)夫人 (go)fujin - wife (2, 4) (yes, it means wife but it's written with 夫)
夫 otto - husband (1, 3)
旦那 danna - husband (1)*†
主人 shujin - husband (3)
ご主人 goshujin - husband (4)†
嫁 yome - daughter-in-law (1, 3)
お嫁さん oyomesan - daughter-in-law (2, 4)†
婿 muko - son-in-law (1, 3)
お婿さん omukosan - son-in-law (2, 4, but not really a common term)†
舅 shūto - father-in-law (1, 3)
お舅さん oshūtosan - father-in-law (2, 4)†
姑 shūtome - mother-in-law (1, 3)
お姑さん oshūtomesan - mother-in-law (2, 4)†
you can add 義理~ giri- to create other in-laws, e.g. 義理弟 giri-otōto - younger brother-in-law
you can add まま~/継~ mama- to create step relations, e.g. まま父 mama-chichi - stepfather
key:
*add ~さん -san for 4
†add ~様 -sama (or change ~さん -san to ~様 -sama) for 4+
I bet Korean's worse, and if anyone here knows Korean, I'd like to see it.
Kinship terms are a bit of a rat's nest in Japanese, because formality and the relationship of the speakers come into play. There are four basic situations:
1. talking to a friend or family member about your own family
2. talking to a friend or family member about someone else's family
3. talking in a formal situation about your own family
4. talking in a formal situation about someone else's family
4+. talking in a honorific style about someone else's family
Same generation:
お兄さん oniisan - older brother (1,2,4)†
兄 ani - older brother (3)
弟 otōto - younger brother (1, 2, 3)*†
お姉さん onēsan - older sister (1,2,4)†
姉 ane - older sister (3)
妹 imōto - younger sister (1, 2, 3)*†
いとこ(従妹) itoko - cousin*†
はとこ hatoko - 1st cousin*†
Generation above:
お父さん otōsan - father (1, 2, 4)†
父親 chichioya - father (1)
父 chichi - father (3)
お母さん okāsan - mother (1, 2, 4)†
母親 hahaoya - mother (1)
母 haha - mother (3)
おばさん obasan - aunt†
おじさん ojisan - uncle†
Aunts and uncles can be distinguished in writing, i.e. 伯母さん/叔父さん obasan/ojisan are aunts and uncles who are older than the parent they are connected with, while 叔母さん/叔父さん are aunts and uncles who are younger than the parent they are connected with. This is not often done though, and not everyone is immediately familiar with the difference between 伯 and 叔.
Generation below:
息子 musuko - son (1, 2, 3)*
ご子息様 goshisokusama - son (4+)
娘 musume - daughter (1, 2, 3)*
ご息女様 gosokujosama - daughter (4+)
甥(っ子) oi(kko) - nephew (1, 2, 3) (the ko suffix marks it as a child but can't be used for 3)
甥御様 oigosama - nephew (4+)
姪(っ子) mei(kko) - niece (ditto)
姪御様 oigosama - nephew (4+)
(there is no good term for 4; adding -san is weird, using oigo/meigo is stiff)
Two generations above:
ばあば bāba - grandma (1)
おばあちゃん obāchan - grandmother (1, 2)
おばあさん (お婆さん、お祖母さん) obāsan - grandmother (1, 2, 4)†
祖母 sobo - grandmother (3)
じいじ jiiji - grandpa (1)
おじいちゃん ojiichan - grandfather (1, 2)
おじいさん (お爺さん、お祖父さん) ojiisan - grandfather (1, 2, 4)†
祖父 sofu - grandfather (3)
Two generations below:
孫 mago - grandchild (1, 2, 3)
お孫さん omagosan - grandchild (4)†
Marriage
妻 tsuma - wife (1, 3)
家内 kanai - wife (1, 3) (only old people use this; it literally means "the inside of the house")
かみさん/カミさん kamisan - wife (1, 2 (I think 2))
女房 nyōbo - wife (1)
奥さん okusan - wife (1, 2, 4)†
(ご)夫人 (go)fujin - wife (2, 4) (yes, it means wife but it's written with 夫)
夫 otto - husband (1, 3)
旦那 danna - husband (1)*†
主人 shujin - husband (3)
ご主人 goshujin - husband (4)†
嫁 yome - daughter-in-law (1, 3)
お嫁さん oyomesan - daughter-in-law (2, 4)†
婿 muko - son-in-law (1, 3)
お婿さん omukosan - son-in-law (2, 4, but not really a common term)†
舅 shūto - father-in-law (1, 3)
お舅さん oshūtosan - father-in-law (2, 4)†
姑 shūtome - mother-in-law (1, 3)
お姑さん oshūtomesan - mother-in-law (2, 4)†
you can add 義理~ giri- to create other in-laws, e.g. 義理弟 giri-otōto - younger brother-in-law
you can add まま~/継~ mama- to create step relations, e.g. まま父 mama-chichi - stepfather
key:
*add ~さん -san for 4
†add ~様 -sama (or change ~さん -san to ~様 -sama) for 4+
I bet Korean's worse, and if anyone here knows Korean, I'd like to see it.
Last edited by clawgrip on 10 May 2016 16:13, edited 1 time in total.
- alynnidalar
- greek
- Posts: 700
- Joined: 17 Aug 2014 03:22
- Location: Michigan, USA
Re: Kinship terms
Here's the Tirina ones, using the real family tree of Alyn, an individual from my conworld. As you can probably tell, Chinese kinship terms were a definite inspiration!
I think I posted that here before, but I can't recall. Some notes:
Most kinship terms are listed in the tree; most of the missing ones have been listed and described separately (or can be figured out based on the same patterns). * is birth date, + is death date. oo is marriage date. ... means unknown. #C#R means "#th cousin, # times removed".
The people in this tree are dalar, who as you can see from the dates live significantly longer than humans. They tend to have their children in groups. Siblings from the same set as you are your "milkbrothers/sisters" (hepin/wadas), and siblings from a different set are your "bloodbrothers/sisters" (erate/erataha).
Anar/muran/ato are intensifiers and serve to indicate the degree of relation. Once you run out of those, you start using ordinal numbers: fıler "fifth", atanaril "sixth", etc. There's a few more subtleties that aren't included here, but this is plenty to get you started.
Oh, and ignore the placeholder names, please. :)
I think I posted that here before, but I can't recall. Some notes:
Most kinship terms are listed in the tree; most of the missing ones have been listed and described separately (or can be figured out based on the same patterns). * is birth date, + is death date. oo is marriage date. ... means unknown. #C#R means "#th cousin, # times removed".
The people in this tree are dalar, who as you can see from the dates live significantly longer than humans. They tend to have their children in groups. Siblings from the same set as you are your "milkbrothers/sisters" (hepin/wadas), and siblings from a different set are your "bloodbrothers/sisters" (erate/erataha).
Anar/muran/ato are intensifiers and serve to indicate the degree of relation. Once you run out of those, you start using ordinal numbers: fıler "fifth", atanaril "sixth", etc. There's a few more subtleties that aren't included here, but this is plenty to get you started.
Oh, and ignore the placeholder names, please. :)
- Dormouse559
- moderator
- Posts: 2947
- Joined: 10 Nov 2012 20:52
- Location: California
Re: Kinship terms
French's family terms are a lot like English's. (Figures; English borrowed so many of them.) A notable difference is that French doesn't usually distinguish between in-laws and stepfamily. French in-laws/stepfamily are also exceedingly beautiful apparently.
French
frère /fʁɛʁ/ - brother
sœur /sœʁ/ - sister
***
aîné(e) /ene/ - older/eldest
cadet(te) /kadɛ(t)/ - younger/youngest
benjamin(e) /bɑ̃ʒamɛ̃ | bɑ̃ʒamin/ - youngest
père (formal), papa (informal) /pɛʁ | papa/ - father
mère (formal), maman (informal) /mɛʁ | mamɑ̃/ - mother
fils /fis/ - son
fille /fij/ - daughter
oncle /ɔ̃kl/ - uncle
tante /tɑ̃t/ - aunt
cousin(e) /kuzɛ̃ | kuzin/ - cousin
cousin(e) germain(e) /kuzɛ̃ ʒɛʁmɛ̃ | kuzin ʒɛʁmɛn/ - first cousin, cousin german (child of a parent's sibling)
neveu /nəvø/ - nephew
nièce /njɛs/ - niece
grand-père /gʁɑ̃ pɛʁ/ - grandfather
grand-mère /gʁɑ̃ mɛʁ/ - grandmother
petit-fils /pəti fis/ - grandson
petite-fille /pətit fij/ - granddaughter
mari, époux /maʁi | epu/ - husband
femme (also means "woman"), épouse /fam | epuz/ - wife
beau-frère /bo fʁɛʁ/ - brother-in-law/stepbrother
belle-sœur /bɛl sœʁ/ - sister-in-law/stepsister
beau-père /bo pɛʁ/ - father-in-law/stepfather
belle-mère /bɛl mɛʁ/ - mother-in-law/stepmother
beau-fils /bo fis/ - son-in-law/stepson
belle-fille /bɛl fij/ - daughter-in-law/stepdaughter
I included the Silvish terms for "first/second/third cousin" and "cousin once/twice/three-times removed" because I just finished working on those a couple days ago. The diminutive -et is used often to indicate a separation of two generations (between EGO and the relative or a more complex one, like with cosinet "third cousin").
Silvish
froaul [fɾɔˈaːo̯] - brother
sorela [sɔˈɾɛː.la] - sister
perre, papin (informal) [ˈpɛː.rə | paˈpẽː] - father
merre, maman (informal) [ˈmɛː.rə | maˈmõː] - mother
fieg [ˈfiː] - son
fiegla [ˈfiː.ʎa] - daughter
oncle [ˈõ.klə] - uncle
anta [ˈõ.ta] - aunt
cosin(a) [kɔˈzẽː | kɔˈzeː.ŋa] - cousin
cosin(a) german(a) [kɔˈzẽ dʑəˈmõː | kɔˈzeː.ŋa dʑəˈmaː.ŋa] - first cousin
cosin(a) filiau/filiëla [kɔˈzẽ fɪˈle̯aːo̯ | kɔˈzeː.ŋa fɪˈle̯ɛː.la] - second cousin (grandchild of a grandparent's sibling)
cosinet(a) [kɔ.zɪˈŋɛ(.ta)] - third cousin (great-grandchild of a great-grandparent's sibling)
***
du prim/segon/terciame digrad [dʊ ˈpɾẽː səˈgõː təˈɕɛ̯aː.mə dɪˈgɾaː] - once/twice/three times-removed
nevud [nəˈvoː] - nephew
niassa [ˈne̯a.sa] - niece
parret, gren-perre, papet (informal) [paˈrɛ | ˈgɾãː pɛː.rə | paˈpɛ] - grandfather
marreta, gren-merre, mameta (informal) [maˈrɛ.ta | ˈgɾãː ˈmɛ.rə | maˈmɛ.ta] - grandmother
figlet [fɪˈʎɛ] - grandson
figleta [fɪˈʎɛ.ta] - granddaughter
uön·ne (also means "man"), marid, opòs [ˈo̯õː.nə | maˈɾeː | ɔˈpɔ] - husband
fen·na (also means "woman"), oposa [ˈfãː.na | ɔˈpɔ.za] - wife
cognad [kɔˈɲaː] - brother-in-law
cognada [kɔˈɲaː.ɾa] - sister-in-law
suogre [suː.ɣɾə] - father-in-law
suogra [suː.ɣɾa] - mother-in-law
gindre [ˈdʑẽː.dɾə] - son-in-law
nuora [ˈnuː.ɾa] - daughter-in-law
French
frère /fʁɛʁ/ - brother
sœur /sœʁ/ - sister
***
aîné(e) /ene/ - older/eldest
cadet(te) /kadɛ(t)/ - younger/youngest
benjamin(e) /bɑ̃ʒamɛ̃ | bɑ̃ʒamin/ - youngest
père (formal), papa (informal) /pɛʁ | papa/ - father
mère (formal), maman (informal) /mɛʁ | mamɑ̃/ - mother
fils /fis/ - son
fille /fij/ - daughter
oncle /ɔ̃kl/ - uncle
tante /tɑ̃t/ - aunt
cousin(e) /kuzɛ̃ | kuzin/ - cousin
cousin(e) germain(e) /kuzɛ̃ ʒɛʁmɛ̃ | kuzin ʒɛʁmɛn/ - first cousin, cousin german (child of a parent's sibling)
neveu /nəvø/ - nephew
nièce /njɛs/ - niece
grand-père /gʁɑ̃ pɛʁ/ - grandfather
grand-mère /gʁɑ̃ mɛʁ/ - grandmother
petit-fils /pəti fis/ - grandson
petite-fille /pətit fij/ - granddaughter
mari, époux /maʁi | epu/ - husband
femme (also means "woman"), épouse /fam | epuz/ - wife
beau-frère /bo fʁɛʁ/ - brother-in-law/stepbrother
belle-sœur /bɛl sœʁ/ - sister-in-law/stepsister
beau-père /bo pɛʁ/ - father-in-law/stepfather
belle-mère /bɛl mɛʁ/ - mother-in-law/stepmother
beau-fils /bo fis/ - son-in-law/stepson
belle-fille /bɛl fij/ - daughter-in-law/stepdaughter
I included the Silvish terms for "first/second/third cousin" and "cousin once/twice/three-times removed" because I just finished working on those a couple days ago. The diminutive -et is used often to indicate a separation of two generations (between EGO and the relative or a more complex one, like with cosinet "third cousin").
Silvish
froaul [fɾɔˈaːo̯] - brother
sorela [sɔˈɾɛː.la] - sister
perre, papin (informal) [ˈpɛː.rə | paˈpẽː] - father
merre, maman (informal) [ˈmɛː.rə | maˈmõː] - mother
fieg [ˈfiː] - son
fiegla [ˈfiː.ʎa] - daughter
oncle [ˈõ.klə] - uncle
anta [ˈõ.ta] - aunt
cosin(a) [kɔˈzẽː | kɔˈzeː.ŋa] - cousin
cosin(a) german(a) [kɔˈzẽ dʑəˈmõː | kɔˈzeː.ŋa dʑəˈmaː.ŋa] - first cousin
cosin(a) filiau/filiëla [kɔˈzẽ fɪˈle̯aːo̯ | kɔˈzeː.ŋa fɪˈle̯ɛː.la] - second cousin (grandchild of a grandparent's sibling)
cosinet(a) [kɔ.zɪˈŋɛ(.ta)] - third cousin (great-grandchild of a great-grandparent's sibling)
***
du prim/segon/terciame digrad [dʊ ˈpɾẽː səˈgõː təˈɕɛ̯aː.mə dɪˈgɾaː] - once/twice/three times-removed
nevud [nəˈvoː] - nephew
niassa [ˈne̯a.sa] - niece
parret, gren-perre, papet (informal) [paˈrɛ | ˈgɾãː pɛː.rə | paˈpɛ] - grandfather
marreta, gren-merre, mameta (informal) [maˈrɛ.ta | ˈgɾãː ˈmɛ.rə | maˈmɛ.ta] - grandmother
figlet [fɪˈʎɛ] - grandson
figleta [fɪˈʎɛ.ta] - granddaughter
uön·ne (also means "man"), marid, opòs [ˈo̯õː.nə | maˈɾeː | ɔˈpɔ] - husband
fen·na (also means "woman"), oposa [ˈfãː.na | ɔˈpɔ.za] - wife
cognad [kɔˈɲaː] - brother-in-law
cognada [kɔˈɲaː.ɾa] - sister-in-law
suogre [suː.ɣɾə] - father-in-law
suogra [suː.ɣɾa] - mother-in-law
gindre [ˈdʑẽː.dɾə] - son-in-law
nuora [ˈnuː.ɾa] - daughter-in-law
Re: Kinship terms
German
Bruder [ˈbʁuːdɐ] - male sibling
Schwester [ˈʃvɛstʰɐ] - female sibling
Vater [ˈfatʰɐ] - male parent
Mutter [ˈmʊtʰɐ] - female parent
Sohn [zoːn] - male child
Tochter [ˈtʰɔχtʰɐ] - female child
Cousin [kʰuˈsɔː / kʰuˈsɛŋ] - male uncle's/aunt's child
Cousine/Kusine [kʰuˈsiːnə] - female uncle's/aunt's child
Neffe [ˈnɛfə] - sibling or sibling-in-law's son
Nichte [ˈnɪçtʰə] - sibling or sibling-in-law's daughter
Großvater (formal), Opa (informal) [ˈgʁoːsfaːtʰɐ / ˈʔoːpʰa] - parent's father
Großmutter (formal), Oma (informal) [ˈgʁoːsmʊtʰɐ / ˈʔoːma] - parent's mother
Enkel [ˈʔɛŋkʰəl] - child's son
Enkelin [ˈʔɛŋkʰəlɪn] - child's daughter
Mann, Ehemann [ˈʔeːhəman] - male spouse
Frau, Ehefrau [ˈʔehəːfʁaʊ̯] - female spouse
Schwager [ˈʃvaːgɐ] - spouse's brother or sibling's husband
Schwägerin [ˈʃvɛːgɐʁɪn] - spouse's sister or sibling's wife
Schwiegervater [ˈʃviːgɐˌfaːtʰɐ] - spouse's father
Schwiegermutter [ˈʃviːgɐˌmʊtʰɐ] - spouse's mother
Schwiegersohn [ˈʃviːgɐˌzoːn] - child's husband
Schwiegertochter [ˈʃviːgɐˌˈtʰɔχtʰɐ] - child's wife
Bruder [ˈbʁuːdɐ] - male sibling
Schwester [ˈʃvɛstʰɐ] - female sibling
Vater [ˈfatʰɐ] - male parent
Mutter [ˈmʊtʰɐ] - female parent
Sohn [zoːn] - male child
Tochter [ˈtʰɔχtʰɐ] - female child
Cousin [kʰuˈsɔː / kʰuˈsɛŋ] - male uncle's/aunt's child
Cousine/Kusine [kʰuˈsiːnə] - female uncle's/aunt's child
Neffe [ˈnɛfə] - sibling or sibling-in-law's son
Nichte [ˈnɪçtʰə] - sibling or sibling-in-law's daughter
Großvater (formal), Opa (informal) [ˈgʁoːsfaːtʰɐ / ˈʔoːpʰa] - parent's father
Großmutter (formal), Oma (informal) [ˈgʁoːsmʊtʰɐ / ˈʔoːma] - parent's mother
Enkel [ˈʔɛŋkʰəl] - child's son
Enkelin [ˈʔɛŋkʰəlɪn] - child's daughter
Mann, Ehemann [ˈʔeːhəman] - male spouse
Frau, Ehefrau [ˈʔehəːfʁaʊ̯] - female spouse
Schwager [ˈʃvaːgɐ] - spouse's brother or sibling's husband
Schwägerin [ˈʃvɛːgɐʁɪn] - spouse's sister or sibling's wife
Schwiegervater [ˈʃviːgɐˌfaːtʰɐ] - spouse's father
Schwiegermutter [ˈʃviːgɐˌmʊtʰɐ] - spouse's mother
Schwiegersohn [ˈʃviːgɐˌzoːn] - child's husband
Schwiegertochter [ˈʃviːgɐˌˈtʰɔχtʰɐ] - child's wife
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: Kinship terms
Atlántika
We have a fairly typical European system here:
dlipos – brother (from Late PIE sm̩gʷʰélbʰos 'male same-womb-er')
dlipa – sister
fatar – father tata – dad
matar – mother (older mètar) mama – mom
tèjos – uncle
tèja – aunt
cujos – son (semi-cognate with English son, oh yes)
cuja – daughter (archaically zgatar)
nixos – male cousin
nixa – female cousin
subrinhos – nephew (borrowed from Portuguese)
subrinha – niece
fapos – grandfather (there's also fatrinhos – great-grandfather (literally 'little father')
fapa – grandmother (and metrinha is 'great-grandmother', of course)
zgatrinhos – grandson
zgatrinha – granddaughter
sujdoghos/adar – husband (sujdoghos literally means 'the one yoked together '; adar also means man in general, and the /d/ there in place of the expected /n/ is analogical from the other case/number forms)
sujdogha/guna – wife (guna also means woman in general)
gabros – brother-in-law
gabra – sister-in-law
fintros – father-in-law
fintra – sister-in-law
jendros – son-in-law (another Portuguese loanword)
noga – daughter-in-law
We have a fairly typical European system here:
dlipos – brother (from Late PIE sm̩gʷʰélbʰos 'male same-womb-er')
dlipa – sister
fatar – father tata – dad
matar – mother (older mètar) mama – mom
tèjos – uncle
tèja – aunt
cujos – son (semi-cognate with English son, oh yes)
cuja – daughter (archaically zgatar)
nixos – male cousin
nixa – female cousin
subrinhos – nephew (borrowed from Portuguese)
subrinha – niece
fapos – grandfather (there's also fatrinhos – great-grandfather (literally 'little father')
fapa – grandmother (and metrinha is 'great-grandmother', of course)
zgatrinhos – grandson
zgatrinha – granddaughter
sujdoghos/adar – husband (sujdoghos literally means 'the one yoked together '; adar also means man in general, and the /d/ there in place of the expected /n/ is analogical from the other case/number forms)
sujdogha/guna – wife (guna also means woman in general)
gabros – brother-in-law
gabra – sister-in-law
fintros – father-in-law
fintra – sister-in-law
jendros – son-in-law (another Portuguese loanword)
noga – daughter-in-law
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.
- eldin raigmore
- korean
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Re: Kinship terms
I was going to start a "kinship" thread in ACH.
See viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1416&p=250410#p250410.
But I don't know; maybe it would be a duplicate of this thread.
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I'm going to quote a long-ago post from the ZBB here.
See viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1416&p=250410#p250410.
But I don't know; maybe it would be a duplicate of this thread.
I'm going to quote a long-ago post from the ZBB here.
on Mon Oct 23, 2006 at 12:27 pm, TomHChappell wrote:
Post subject: Kinterms In Your Conlangs (And Natlangs)
With apologies to Janko;
How many boardmembers have developed kinterms in your conlangs?
For primary kin I take the following fifteen. (I realize not all of them might exist in every conculture (e.g. "godfather" and "blood-brother"); and in some concultures some of them I've called "primary" might be secondary and vice versa (e.g. "father" and "mother's brother"). Also, not all of these will have different words (e.g. "older brother" and "younger brother") in every conculture.)
--- genetic kin ---
Father
Mother
Older Brother
Older Sister
Younger Brother
Younger Sister
Son
Daughter
--- fictive kin ---
Husband
Wife
Godfather
Godmother
Godson
Goddaughter
Blood-Brother
In some cultures "Firestick Father" might be used instead of "Godfather".
In others, "Name Father" might be used instead of "Godfather".
Some cultures might use "Oath-Brother" instead of "Blood-Brother".
And so on.
The 18th-century English author, Edward Gibbon (1737-1794), used the term "Father-In-Law" to refer to an adoptive father or fictive father, even moreso than for "spouse's father"; and used the term "Son-In-Law" for an adoptive son or fictive son, even moreso than for "daughter's husband".
A secondary kinsman is the primary kinsman of a primary kinsman. Your conlang probably has or will need words for many (if not most) kinds of secondary kinsmen, too. There may not be quite 225 of them, since you may leave out husbands of males and wives of females and blood-brothers of females. In some concultures perhaps these would be needed.
In modern American English a term is arising, "baby-daddy", meaning "my baby's daddy" i.e. "child's father", which is not necessarily the same as "husband". This ("baby-daddy") is a secondary kinterm, rather than a fictive primary kinterm.
In some cultures a man helps raise his sisters' children rather than his wives' children; and his heir is his oldest sister's oldest son, not his wife's oldest son (who may or may not be his own oldest son). In such cultures "sister's son" could possibly be considered primary while "son" would be considered secondary; actually "son" wouldn't exist as such, instead it would be "wife's son". In such cultures "father" wouldn't be primary -- it might be replaced by "mother's husband" -- while "mother's oldest brother" would be primary.
In some cultures a father's brother is a father and a mother's sister is a mother. In these cultures a father's wife is a mother and a mother's husband is a father, so a brother, a half-brother (whether father's son or mother's son), and a step-brother (whether father's wife's son or mother's husband's son), are all just "brother".
In yet other cultures a careful distinction is made, not only between full-brothers and half-brothers, but also between the two kinds of half-brother; same father but different mother, or same mother but different father.
I'd like to hear as much as you feel about telling us about terms for secondary kin in your conlang, if you have any. You ought to be able to eventually put together a list (yeah, I know, I ought to as well, but I haven't yet); if there are fewer than 100 terms on it, I'd like to see it. You might not feel like posting the whole thing here (but if there are less than 25 terms I hope you will); maybe you'd rather post a URL where we can find it.
In English, a godparent's child or a parent's godchild was a "godsib", from which we get "gossip".
In Spanish, a godchild's father or a child's godfather is a "compadre".
While most natlangs have terms for some tertiary kin (primary kin of secondary kin, or secondary kin of primary kin); and many have a few terms for quaternary kin (secondary kin of secondary kin); probably most don't have a complete list for tertiary kin, and most don't have any simple terms for kin more distant than quaternary kin.
But Turkish, for instance, has a term for "son's wife's father" or "daughter's husband's father".
And English "abuses" the term "brother-in-law" to include "sibling's spouse's brother" and "spouse's sister's husband", which are tertiary kin, even though technically "brother-in-law" applies only to secondary kin (spouse's brother and sister's husband).
If your conlang has any special terms for any tertiary kin, I'd like to hear them. Chances are a complete list of terms for all tertiary relationships would be too bulky to post here; but you might post a URL that would direct us to the entire list, if you have one and want to.
-----
Tom H.C. in MI
Last edited by TomHChappell on Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
- k1234567890y
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- Contact:
Re: Kinship terms
Lonmai Luna
Lonmai Luna has a very simple kinship system:
- kolcel / celo - a parent or any relative belonging to the same generation of the parent(s) of the speaker.
- alcel / yalcel - a sibling or any relative belonging to the same generation of the speaker themself
- ilacel - an offspring or any relative belonging to the same generation of the the offspring(s) of the speaker.
Lonmai Luna has a very simple kinship system:
- kolcel / celo - a parent or any relative belonging to the same generation of the parent(s) of the speaker.
- alcel / yalcel - a sibling or any relative belonging to the same generation of the speaker themself
- ilacel - an offspring or any relative belonging to the same generation of the the offspring(s) of the speaker.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: Kinship terms
No grandparents or grandchildren?k1234567890y wrote::con: Lonmai Luna
Lonmai Luna has a very simple kinship system:
- kolcel / celo - a parent or any relative belonging to the same generation of the parent(s) of the speaker.
- alcel / yalcel - a sibling or any relative belonging to the same generation of the speaker themself
- ilacel - an offspring or any relative belonging to the same generation of the the offspring(s) of the speaker.
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- eldin raigmore
- korean
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Re: Kinship terms
What do you call:
someone's Parents' Children (or someone's Parent's Child);
someone's Children's Parents (or someone's Child's Parent);
someone's Siblings' Siblings (or someone's Sibling's Sibling);
someone's Spouses' Spouses (or someone's Spouse's Spouse)?
And what, if any, terms are there for:
Parents' Spouses or Parent's Spouse;
Spouses' Children or Spouse's Child;
Children's Siblings or Child's Sibling;
Siblings' Parents or Sibling's Parent?
If kinterms are sensitive to the sex of ALTER, are they also sensitive to the sex of the propositus EGO?
For instance;
do you split "parent" into "male parent" (i.e. "father") and "female parent" (i.e. "mother"), or into "same-sex parent" and "opposite-sex parent"?
do you split "sibling" into "male sibling" (i.e. "brother") and "female sibling" (i.e. "sister"), or into "same-sex sibling" and "opposite-sex sibling"? (BTW some natlang does the latter.)
do you split "spouse" into "male spouse" (i.e. "husband") and "female spouse" (i.e. "wife"), or into "same-sex spouse" and "opposite-sex spouse"? (The latter would be very unusual in older natlangs and older natcultures, but may be more common in concultures and conlangs set in the future.)
do you split "child" into "male child" (i.e. "son") and "female child" (i.e. "daughter"), or into "same-sex child" and "opposite-sex child"?
For secondary kinterms, are they sensitive to the sex
of ALTER?
Or of the connecting relative?
or of EGO?
Or of two of those (and which two, if so)?
or of all three of them?
For instance;
Do you have words for "grandfather" and "grandmother"?
Or words for "father's parent" and "mother's parent"?
Or four different words, "father's father" and "father's mother" and "mother's father" and "mother's mother"?
Or, even,
"parent's same-sex parent" and "parent's opposite-sex parent"?
or "same-sex parent's parent" and "opposite-sex parent's parent"?
or "same-sex grandparent" and "opposite-sex grandparent"?
or "same-sex parent's same-sex parent", "same-sex parent's opposite-sex parent", "opposite-sex parent's same-sex parent", and "opposite-sex parent's opposite-sex parent"?
(for a male propositus, those would be "paternal grandfather", "paternal grandmother", "maternal grandmother", and "maternal grandfather", respectively;
(while for a female EGO, they would be "maternal grandmother", "maternal grandfather", "paternal grandfather", and "paternal grandmother" respectively.)
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Are any of your kinterms sensitive to relative age?
Maybe "spouse" is divided into "spouse older than EGO" vs "spouse younger than EGO"? (Seems unchivalrous! Unless everybody marries two spouses, one older than themselves and the other younger than themselves.)
Or, maybe, if some people typically have more than one spouse, you have terms for "oldest spouse", "youngest spouse", and maybe "any other spouse"?
In some cultures the "senior wife" (which usually means "first wife") of a male EGO has special privileges.
In some the newest wife also has, temporarily, other special privileges (since she's likely to be in a "favorite" or "honeymoon" phase for a while).
In polyandrous cultures it may go the other way.
More naturalistic/realistic, perhaps, is:
Are the words for "sibling" different depending on their age relative to the propositus (EGO)?
I remember reading of a natlang with four "sibling" terms:
* same-sex sibling older than EGO
* same-sex sibling younger than EGO
* opposite-sex sibling older than EGO
* opposite-sex sibling younger than EGO
French has terms for "oldest brother" (at least, if older than EGO) and "youngest brother" (at least, if younger than EGO).
IIRC these are "an" and "cadet". Maybe I am mistaken. And even if not, maybe these terms are archaic now.
Colloquial modern USAmerican English has had for some time now (longer than I've been alive) a phrasal term (though not a word) for "youngest sibling"; to wit, "the baby of the family".
Your language, or your conlang, might have terms for:
older sibling
older brother
older sister
younger sibling
younger brother
younger sister
-----------
oldest sibling (I think Tagalog probably has such a term? I could be mistaken.)
oldest brother
oldest sister
youngest sibling
youngest brother
youngest sister
-------------
youngest older sibling
youngest older brother
youngest older sister
oldest younger sibling
oldest younger brother
oldest younger sister
Could your terms for "child" and/or "son" and/or "daughter" also be influenced by their ages relative to your other children (their siblings)?
You might have terms for:
only child
oldest child
youngest child
any child who is neither oldest nor youngest
only son
oldest son
youngest son
any son who is neither oldest nor youngest
only daughter
oldest daughter
youngest daughter
any daughter who is neither oldest nor youngest
----------------
If I am not mistaken, some (African? and/or Asian?) languages have words to single out that one of (a male) EGO's wives who is the mother of his oldest son.
I would think it possible that could have all variations possible by varying the sexes involved and alternating "oldest" with "youngest":
in polygynous cultures,
* mother of my oldest son
* mother of my youngest son
* mother of my oldest daughter
* mother of my youngest daughter
in polyandrous cultures;
* father of my oldest son
* father of my youngest son
* father of my oldest daughter
* father of my youngest daughter
----------------
I may be wrong, again, but, if not, in some of those same African languages, a person (EGO) with a grandchild has a different term to call their child (ALTER) who is parent of their (EGO's) oldest grandchild. And if the grandchild dies, there is yet another term to call their parent.
Do your terms for "child's child" vary depending on the sex of ALTER (the grandchild)?
Or the sex of the intermediate relative (EGO's child, ALTER's parent)?
Or the sex of the propositus (EGO's sex)?
Maybe your 'lang distinguishes grandsons from granddaughters.
Or, maybe, instead (or as well?), it distinguishes sons' children from daughters' children.
Or just to give a possibility, without claiming it's attested in any natlang, (nor even that it's naturalistic nor realistic!), maybe there are terms for:
* same-sex child's same-sex child (i.e., a male EGO's son's son or a female EGO's daughter's daughter)
* opposite-sex child's opposite-sex child (i.e., a male EGO's daughters's son or a female EGO's son's daughter)
* any other grandchild (i.e., any granddaughter of a male EGO or any grandson of a female EGO).
someone's Parents' Children (or someone's Parent's Child);
someone's Children's Parents (or someone's Child's Parent);
someone's Siblings' Siblings (or someone's Sibling's Sibling);
someone's Spouses' Spouses (or someone's Spouse's Spouse)?
And what, if any, terms are there for:
Parents' Spouses or Parent's Spouse;
Spouses' Children or Spouse's Child;
Children's Siblings or Child's Sibling;
Siblings' Parents or Sibling's Parent?
If kinterms are sensitive to the sex of ALTER, are they also sensitive to the sex of the propositus EGO?
For instance;
do you split "parent" into "male parent" (i.e. "father") and "female parent" (i.e. "mother"), or into "same-sex parent" and "opposite-sex parent"?
do you split "sibling" into "male sibling" (i.e. "brother") and "female sibling" (i.e. "sister"), or into "same-sex sibling" and "opposite-sex sibling"? (BTW some natlang does the latter.)
do you split "spouse" into "male spouse" (i.e. "husband") and "female spouse" (i.e. "wife"), or into "same-sex spouse" and "opposite-sex spouse"? (The latter would be very unusual in older natlangs and older natcultures, but may be more common in concultures and conlangs set in the future.)
do you split "child" into "male child" (i.e. "son") and "female child" (i.e. "daughter"), or into "same-sex child" and "opposite-sex child"?
For secondary kinterms, are they sensitive to the sex
of ALTER?
Or of the connecting relative?
or of EGO?
Or of two of those (and which two, if so)?
or of all three of them?
For instance;
Do you have words for "grandfather" and "grandmother"?
Or words for "father's parent" and "mother's parent"?
Or four different words, "father's father" and "father's mother" and "mother's father" and "mother's mother"?
Or, even,
"parent's same-sex parent" and "parent's opposite-sex parent"?
or "same-sex parent's parent" and "opposite-sex parent's parent"?
or "same-sex grandparent" and "opposite-sex grandparent"?
or "same-sex parent's same-sex parent", "same-sex parent's opposite-sex parent", "opposite-sex parent's same-sex parent", and "opposite-sex parent's opposite-sex parent"?
(for a male propositus, those would be "paternal grandfather", "paternal grandmother", "maternal grandmother", and "maternal grandfather", respectively;
(while for a female EGO, they would be "maternal grandmother", "maternal grandfather", "paternal grandfather", and "paternal grandmother" respectively.)
Are any of your kinterms sensitive to relative age?
Maybe "spouse" is divided into "spouse older than EGO" vs "spouse younger than EGO"? (Seems unchivalrous! Unless everybody marries two spouses, one older than themselves and the other younger than themselves.)
Or, maybe, if some people typically have more than one spouse, you have terms for "oldest spouse", "youngest spouse", and maybe "any other spouse"?
In some cultures the "senior wife" (which usually means "first wife") of a male EGO has special privileges.
In some the newest wife also has, temporarily, other special privileges (since she's likely to be in a "favorite" or "honeymoon" phase for a while).
In polyandrous cultures it may go the other way.
More naturalistic/realistic, perhaps, is:
Are the words for "sibling" different depending on their age relative to the propositus (EGO)?
I remember reading of a natlang with four "sibling" terms:
* same-sex sibling older than EGO
* same-sex sibling younger than EGO
* opposite-sex sibling older than EGO
* opposite-sex sibling younger than EGO
French has terms for "oldest brother" (at least, if older than EGO) and "youngest brother" (at least, if younger than EGO).
IIRC these are "an" and "cadet". Maybe I am mistaken. And even if not, maybe these terms are archaic now.
Colloquial modern USAmerican English has had for some time now (longer than I've been alive) a phrasal term (though not a word) for "youngest sibling"; to wit, "the baby of the family".
Your language, or your conlang, might have terms for:
older sibling
older brother
older sister
younger sibling
younger brother
younger sister
-----------
oldest sibling (I think Tagalog probably has such a term? I could be mistaken.)
oldest brother
oldest sister
youngest sibling
youngest brother
youngest sister
-------------
youngest older sibling
youngest older brother
youngest older sister
oldest younger sibling
oldest younger brother
oldest younger sister
Could your terms for "child" and/or "son" and/or "daughter" also be influenced by their ages relative to your other children (their siblings)?
You might have terms for:
only child
oldest child
youngest child
any child who is neither oldest nor youngest
only son
oldest son
youngest son
any son who is neither oldest nor youngest
only daughter
oldest daughter
youngest daughter
any daughter who is neither oldest nor youngest
----------------
If I am not mistaken, some (African? and/or Asian?) languages have words to single out that one of (a male) EGO's wives who is the mother of his oldest son.
I would think it possible that could have all variations possible by varying the sexes involved and alternating "oldest" with "youngest":
in polygynous cultures,
* mother of my oldest son
* mother of my youngest son
* mother of my oldest daughter
* mother of my youngest daughter
in polyandrous cultures;
* father of my oldest son
* father of my youngest son
* father of my oldest daughter
* father of my youngest daughter
----------------
I may be wrong, again, but, if not, in some of those same African languages, a person (EGO) with a grandchild has a different term to call their child (ALTER) who is parent of their (EGO's) oldest grandchild. And if the grandchild dies, there is yet another term to call their parent.
Do your terms for "child's child" vary depending on the sex of ALTER (the grandchild)?
Or the sex of the intermediate relative (EGO's child, ALTER's parent)?
Or the sex of the propositus (EGO's sex)?
Maybe your 'lang distinguishes grandsons from granddaughters.
Or, maybe, instead (or as well?), it distinguishes sons' children from daughters' children.
Or just to give a possibility, without claiming it's attested in any natlang, (nor even that it's naturalistic nor realistic!), maybe there are terms for:
* same-sex child's same-sex child (i.e., a male EGO's son's son or a female EGO's daughter's daughter)
* opposite-sex child's opposite-sex child (i.e., a male EGO's daughters's son or a female EGO's son's daughter)
* any other grandchild (i.e., any granddaughter of a male EGO or any grandson of a female EGO).
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 20 Mar 2017 05:00, edited 1 time in total.
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- eldin raigmore
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Re: Kinship terms
Certain 3rd-degree kinterms:
What do you call your:
parent's parent's parent?
parent's parent's child?
parent's child's child?
child's child's child?
How much does it vary depending on the sexes of the people in the chain of connecting relatives?
For instance; you might distinguish all eight great-grandparents; FFF, FFM, FMF, FMM, MFF, MFM, MMF, MMM.
You might distinguish all eight kinds of great-grandchildren; SSS, SSD, SDS, SDD, DSS, DSD, DDS, DDD.
You might distinguish four different kinds of half-uncle -- FFS, FMS, MFS, MMS -- and four different kinds of half-aunt -- FFD, FMD, MFD, MMD.
You might distinguish four different kinds of "half-nephew" -- FSS, FDS, MSS, MDS -- and four different kinds of "half-niece" -- FSD, FDD, MSD, MDD.
How much does it vary depending on the relative ages of the people in the chain of connecting relatives?
This isn't a variable in "parent's parent's parent" nor "child's child's child".
But do you have a different word for, for instance, an uncle (father's brother) who is older than your father, versus one who is younger than your father?
And, in my father's time, and my mother's father's time, it would also have been convenient to distinguish an uncle older than EGO from one younger than EGO.
Reciprocally, one might wish to distinguish one's "niblings" (nieces and/or nephews) who are children of an older sibling, from those who are children of a younger sibling;
and if the connecting relative (their parent, your sibling (or half-sibling?)) is older than you, you might also need to specify whether your nibling is older than you or younger than you.
[hr][/hr]
[hr][/hr]
What about third-degree relatives where there is a chain of child-or-parent relationships in which one of the "child" links precedes one of the "parent" links?
* child's parent's parent
* child's child's parent
* child's parent's child
* parent's child's parent
Do you always assume that if ALTER is EGO's child's parent, then ALTER must be EGO's spouse or ex-spouse or intended spouse or formerly betrothed?
If so, "child's parent's parent" is something like "parent-in-law", and "child's child's parent" is something like "child-in-law".
"parent's child's parent" is like "sibling's spouse", and "child's parent's child" is like "spouse's sibling".
How, if at all, do these vary depending on the sex of ALTER, the sex of EGO, and the sex of the interconnecting relatives?
How much, if at all, do they depend on the life-status of the interconnecting relatives (living, deceased, not-yet-born)?
How much (etc.) do they depend on whether any marriages in the chain are no longer in effect (there's been a divorce), or have not yet been solemnized (they're engaged, but not yet married), or even are no longer intended to be solemnized (they were engaged but broke up* before marrying)?
*
For instance does a man whose mother-in-law is younger than he is, call her by a different kinterm than he would if she were older than he?
What do you call your:
parent's parent's parent?
parent's parent's child?
parent's child's child?
child's child's child?
How much does it vary depending on the sexes of the people in the chain of connecting relatives?
For instance; you might distinguish all eight great-grandparents; FFF, FFM, FMF, FMM, MFF, MFM, MMF, MMM.
You might distinguish all eight kinds of great-grandchildren; SSS, SSD, SDS, SDD, DSS, DSD, DDS, DDD.
You might distinguish four different kinds of half-uncle -- FFS, FMS, MFS, MMS -- and four different kinds of half-aunt -- FFD, FMD, MFD, MMD.
You might distinguish four different kinds of "half-nephew" -- FSS, FDS, MSS, MDS -- and four different kinds of "half-niece" -- FSD, FDD, MSD, MDD.
How much does it vary depending on the relative ages of the people in the chain of connecting relatives?
This isn't a variable in "parent's parent's parent" nor "child's child's child".
But do you have a different word for, for instance, an uncle (father's brother) who is older than your father, versus one who is younger than your father?
And, in my father's time, and my mother's father's time, it would also have been convenient to distinguish an uncle older than EGO from one younger than EGO.
Reciprocally, one might wish to distinguish one's "niblings" (nieces and/or nephews) who are children of an older sibling, from those who are children of a younger sibling;
and if the connecting relative (their parent, your sibling (or half-sibling?)) is older than you, you might also need to specify whether your nibling is older than you or younger than you.
What about third-degree relatives where there is a chain of child-or-parent relationships in which one of the "child" links precedes one of the "parent" links?
* child's parent's parent
* child's child's parent
* child's parent's child
* parent's child's parent
Do you always assume that if ALTER is EGO's child's parent, then ALTER must be EGO's spouse or ex-spouse or intended spouse or formerly betrothed?
If so, "child's parent's parent" is something like "parent-in-law", and "child's child's parent" is something like "child-in-law".
"parent's child's parent" is like "sibling's spouse", and "child's parent's child" is like "spouse's sibling".
How, if at all, do these vary depending on the sex of ALTER, the sex of EGO, and the sex of the interconnecting relatives?
How much, if at all, do they depend on the life-status of the interconnecting relatives (living, deceased, not-yet-born)?
How much (etc.) do they depend on whether any marriages in the chain are no longer in effect (there's been a divorce), or have not yet been solemnized (they're engaged, but not yet married), or even are no longer intended to be solemnized (they were engaged but broke up* before marrying)?
*
Edit: *or one of them died
And do they depend at all on the relative ages of the people in the chain?For instance does a man whose mother-in-law is younger than he is, call her by a different kinterm than he would if she were older than he?
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 20 Mar 2017 05:04, edited 2 times in total.
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- eldin raigmore
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Re: Kinship terms
I agree that it seems unlikely, if the conspeakers are human and their conculture is similar to RL cultures, that there would be no terms for parents' parents or none for children's children.masako wrote:No grandparents or grandchildren?k1234567890y wrote: Lonmai Luna
Lonmai Luna has a very simple kinship system:
- kolcel / celo - a parent or any relative belonging to the same generation of the parent(s) of the speaker.
- alcel / yalcel - a sibling or any relative belonging to the same generation of the speaker themself
- ilacel - an offspring or any relative belonging to the same generation of the the offspring(s) of the speaker.
Great-grand-relatives, OTOH, are more likely to be spoken about than spoken with. (At least, IMHO; at least up until now, anyway.)
One is unlikely to live long enough to have very many long conversations with most of one's adult or late-adolescent great-grandchildren.
This may have changed lately, however.
Suppose women in some family usually have their oldest daughter when the mother is age 20 years old.
Then an 80-year-old woman (EGO) can have a 20-year-old great-granddaughter (ALTER);
ALTER can be EGO's daughter's daughter's daughter.
(And ALTER may also be pregnant with her own first daughter!)
Note this requires both longevity and early parenthood.
IRL as lives get longer, generations also get longer; that is, the age of first parenthood tends to rise as the lifespan lengthens.
So if people usually live to be, say, 75 y/o, then it's a lot likelier that the average age difference between parent and child is more like 25 years; and maybe that the average age difference between parent and oldest-child is about 25.
That would mean a 75-year-old man (EGO), for instance, could have a 50-year-old oldest son who has a 25-year-old oldest son (ALTER, EGO's grandson) whose wife has just given birth to EGO's first great-grandson. EGO may be unlikely to live longer than another two years, and may never converse with his great-grandson.
So depending on the conculture and conhistory and conworld and so on, maybe the language does need terms of address for great-grand-relatives. But IMO even then it's unlikely to need such terms for great^2-grand-relatives, unless either lifespans increase without generations
Edit: *corrected "shortening" to "lengthening" Fri 21 Apr 2017, 15:39
For instance, if people live to be 120 y/o, and have their first child when 18 y/o, a 120-year-old EGO could have a 12-y/o great^4-grandchild.
But if they live to be 99 y/o and have their first child when 30 y/o,
when EGO passes away at age 99, their oldest great-grandchild will be only 9-y/o.
(If EGO passes away at age 70, EGO's oldest grandchild will be only 10. EGO will die before their great-grandchild is ever conceived.)
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 21 Apr 2017 22:40, edited 4 times in total.
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- alynnidalar
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Re: Kinship terms
IIRC Lonmai Luna is spoken by the long-longs, a nonhuman species.
Lots of other questions to answer, though! I have the Tirina terms outlined in a family tree linked earlier in the thread, but let me go through some of these that you mentioned and discuss the Tirina terms in greater detail. Hidden because it's loooong.
tl;dr: in Tirina, you could be really precise (and you'd better know the exact relationship for every single person in your legal family), but you also could just call everyone "cousin" and have done.
EDIT: fixed the father/milkbrother terms. Father is supposed to be hetan, milkbrother is hepin.
Lots of other questions to answer, though! I have the Tirina terms outlined in a family tree linked earlier in the thread, but let me go through some of these that you mentioned and discuss the Tirina terms in greater detail. Hidden because it's loooong.
Spoiler:
EDIT: fixed the father/milkbrother terms. Father is supposed to be hetan, milkbrother is hepin.
Last edited by alynnidalar on 20 Mar 2017 19:14, edited 1 time in total.
- eldin raigmore
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Re: Kinship terms
Thanks very much, alynnidalar!
One question;
Is hepin really the term both for "father" and for "milkbrother"?
One question;
Is hepin really the term both for "father" and for "milkbrother"?
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- Man in Space
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Re: Kinship terms
The nightmare that is the Proto-Dujajikiswə kinship system:
sajis father's brother's daughter; mother's sister's daughter
ɛweñ father's sister's son; mother's brother's son
əʔɛng brother; father's brother's son; mother's sister's daughter (older)
eʔjok brother; father's brother's son; mother's sister's daughter (younger or same age)
jeh sister; father's sister's daughter; mother's brother's daughter (older)
adni sister; father's sister's daughter; mother's brother's daughter (younger or same age)
ñɛpke father; father's brother
kukiṉ father's sister
saswəu father's father
soy father's mother
pɛʔu mother's brother
ñeeja mother; mother's sister
jɛngho mother's father
kaw mother's mother
(Below, "brother" and "sister" include the cousins that would be included as well; "cousin" does not.)
uʔejəs older brother's son
ɛjsoñ younger brother's son
wiungə older brother's daughter
sule younger brother's daughter
ʔuak older sister's son
ʔaj younger sister's son
kəłiso older sister's daughter
əuʔa younger sister's daughter
ekɛn cousin's son
ohjung cousin's daughter
sajis father's brother's daughter; mother's sister's daughter
ɛweñ father's sister's son; mother's brother's son
əʔɛng brother; father's brother's son; mother's sister's daughter (older)
eʔjok brother; father's brother's son; mother's sister's daughter (younger or same age)
jeh sister; father's sister's daughter; mother's brother's daughter (older)
adni sister; father's sister's daughter; mother's brother's daughter (younger or same age)
ñɛpke father; father's brother
kukiṉ father's sister
saswəu father's father
soy father's mother
pɛʔu mother's brother
ñeeja mother; mother's sister
jɛngho mother's father
kaw mother's mother
(Below, "brother" and "sister" include the cousins that would be included as well; "cousin" does not.)
uʔejəs older brother's son
ɛjsoñ younger brother's son
wiungə older brother's daughter
sule younger brother's daughter
ʔuak older sister's son
ʔaj younger sister's son
kəłiso older sister's daughter
əuʔa younger sister's daughter
ekɛn cousin's son
ohjung cousin's daughter
Twin Aster megathread
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
Re: Kinship terms
Yélian kinship terms:
1st grade
méva [ˈmeːva] - mother
pèno [pɛno] - father
mepeʻi [mɛˈpeːʔi] - parent
napor [ˈnapɔd̟] - son
nepia [ˈneːpɪ̯a] - daughter
îyi [ˈiɕi] - child
namo [ˈnamo] - brother
nemia [ˈneːmɪ̯a] - sister
namær [ˈnaməd̟] - sibling
mévatasal [ˈmeːvaˌtasɐl] - grandmother (official)
carla [ˈkaɾla] - grandmother (familiar)
pènotasal [ˈpɛnoˌtasɐl] - grandfather (official)
fride [ˈɾiːdɛ] - grandfather (familiar)
iaco [ˈɪ̯aːko] - grandson
paila [ˈpaɪ̯la] - granddaughter
Higher grades are formed with the prefix giy- [ˈga̯iː], but there is no further distinction, e.g. the grandmother of the mother and the grandmother of the grandmother are both called giycarla [ga̯iːˈkaɾla]
2nd grade
nîyte [ˈniɕtə] - uncle
nîyta/ [ˈniɕta] - aunt
nîytær [ˈniɕtəd̟] - sibling of parents
nánamo [ˈnanamo] - male cousin
nánemia [ˈnaneːmɪ̯a] - female cousin
nánamær [ˈnanaməd̟] - cousin
bérano [ˈbeːɾano] - nephew
bérenia [ˈbeːɾɛnɪ̯a] - niece
béranær [ˈbeːɾanəd̟] - child of siblings
Marriage:
imko [ˈimko] - brother-in-law
imka [ˈimka] - sister-in-law
imkær [ˈimkəd̟] - in-law
imkèno [ɪmˈkɛno] - father-in-law
imkéva [ɪmˈkeːva] - mother-in-law
imkeʻi [ɪmˈkeːʔi] - parent-in-law
1st grade
méva [ˈmeːva] - mother
pèno [pɛno] - father
mepeʻi [mɛˈpeːʔi] - parent
napor [ˈnapɔd̟] - son
nepia [ˈneːpɪ̯a] - daughter
îyi [ˈiɕi] - child
namo [ˈnamo] - brother
nemia [ˈneːmɪ̯a] - sister
namær [ˈnaməd̟] - sibling
mévatasal [ˈmeːvaˌtasɐl] - grandmother (official)
carla [ˈkaɾla] - grandmother (familiar)
pènotasal [ˈpɛnoˌtasɐl] - grandfather (official)
fride [ˈɾiːdɛ] - grandfather (familiar)
iaco [ˈɪ̯aːko] - grandson
paila [ˈpaɪ̯la] - granddaughter
Higher grades are formed with the prefix giy- [ˈga̯iː], but there is no further distinction, e.g. the grandmother of the mother and the grandmother of the grandmother are both called giycarla [ga̯iːˈkaɾla]
2nd grade
nîyte [ˈniɕtə] - uncle
nîyta/ [ˈniɕta] - aunt
nîytær [ˈniɕtəd̟] - sibling of parents
nánamo [ˈnanamo] - male cousin
nánemia [ˈnaneːmɪ̯a] - female cousin
nánamær [ˈnanaməd̟] - cousin
bérano [ˈbeːɾano] - nephew
bérenia [ˈbeːɾɛnɪ̯a] - niece
béranær [ˈbeːɾanəd̟] - child of siblings
Marriage:
imko [ˈimko] - brother-in-law
imka [ˈimka] - sister-in-law
imkær [ˈimkəd̟] - in-law
imkèno [ɪmˈkɛno] - father-in-law
imkéva [ɪmˈkeːva] - mother-in-law
imkeʻi [ɪmˈkeːʔi] - parent-in-law
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: Kinship terms
Kyüweng
In line with many countries in Europe but does have some of it's own unique features
Bádê- Brother
Sosô- Sister
Badê- Father
Madê- Mother
Nebox- Son
Dúhê- Daughter
Tawê- Uncle
Jos- Aunt
Bélôs- Cousin (Gender of noun depends on gender of topic)
Màs- Nephew/Grandson
Malya- Niece/Granddaughter
Adô- Grandfather
Déya- Grandmother (If she's not widowed)
Üwos- Grandmother (If she is widowed)
Dôspox- Husband
Déma- Wife
Sôsùs- Brother-In-Law/Stepbrother
Sora- Sister-In-Law/Stepsister
Tadô- Father-In-Law (Husband's Father)
Sosùs- Father-In-Law (Wife's Father)
Tatya- Mother-In-Law (Husband's Mother)
Sokya- Mother-In-Law (Wife's Mother)
Sûs- Son-In-Law
Nus- Daughter-In-Law
Werô- Stepfather
Wera- Stepmother
Werix- Stepson
Werida- Stepdaughter
In line with many countries in Europe but does have some of it's own unique features
Bádê- Brother
Sosô- Sister
Badê- Father
Madê- Mother
Nebox- Son
Dúhê- Daughter
Tawê- Uncle
Jos- Aunt
Bélôs- Cousin (Gender of noun depends on gender of topic)
Màs- Nephew/Grandson
Malya- Niece/Granddaughter
Adô- Grandfather
Déya- Grandmother (If she's not widowed)
Üwos- Grandmother (If she is widowed)
Dôspox- Husband
Déma- Wife
Sôsùs- Brother-In-Law/Stepbrother
Sora- Sister-In-Law/Stepsister
Tadô- Father-In-Law (Husband's Father)
Sosùs- Father-In-Law (Wife's Father)
Tatya- Mother-In-Law (Husband's Mother)
Sokya- Mother-In-Law (Wife's Mother)
Sûs- Son-In-Law
Nus- Daughter-In-Law
Werô- Stepfather
Wera- Stepmother
Werix- Stepson
Werida- Stepdaughter
- eldin raigmore
- korean
- Posts: 6355
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
- Location: SouthEast Michigan
Re: Kinship terms
Does anyone's conlang (or natlang) have a term for (any one or more of) the following?:
If "primary kin" are only "parent" and "child", this would be:
(Depending on the language and the culture, maybe they always are.
(Depending on the language and the culture,
(perhaps "parents' spouses" are always "parents",
(and/or "siblings' parents" are always "parents",
(and/or "siblings' siblings" are always "siblings",
(and/or "spouses' children" are always "children",
(and/or "children's parents" are always "spouses",
(and/or "children's siblings" are always "children".
(Or perhaps not "always". Maybe only "usually".
(Or maybe, (though probably for a conlang/conculture instead of a natlang/natculture), only "frequently", or, even, only "sometimes".)
[hr][/hr]
Thanks!
- First-degree kin regardless of gender or generation or age?
- Second-degree kin regardless of gender or generation or age?
- Third-degree kin regardless of gender or generation or age?
If "primary kin" are only "parent" and "child", this would be:
- parents and children;
- parents' parents and parents' children and children's children and children's parents;
- parents' parents' parents, parents' parents' children, parents' children's children, children's children's children, children's parents' parents, children's children's parents, parents' children's parents, children's parents' children.
- parents, children, siblings, and spouses;
- parents' parents, parents' siblings, parents' spouses, parents' children, siblings' parents, siblings' siblings, siblings' spouses, siblings' children, spouses' parents, spouses' siblings, spouses' spouses, spouses' children, children's parents, children's siblings, children's spouses, children's children;
- the parents and siblings and spouses and children of the above; equivalently, the above "second-degree" kin of one's own parents, siblings, spouses, and children.
(Depending on the language and the culture, maybe they always are.
(Depending on the language and the culture,
(perhaps "parents' spouses" are always "parents",
(and/or "siblings' parents" are always "parents",
(and/or "siblings' siblings" are always "siblings",
(and/or "spouses' children" are always "children",
(and/or "children's parents" are always "spouses",
(and/or "children's siblings" are always "children".
(Or perhaps not "always". Maybe only "usually".
(Or maybe, (though probably for a conlang/conculture instead of a natlang/natculture), only "frequently", or, even, only "sometimes".)
Thanks!
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
Re: Kinship terms
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