False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Wouldn't be surprised if this one has been mentioned before
mentor
menteur "liar"
mentor
menteur "liar"
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Correct. The whole point is that it looks like a friend, but it's not.GrandPiano wrote:Are you sure? To my understanding, false friends don't have to be cognates, although they usually at least appear to be.clawgrip wrote:A false friend should be cognate but with a different meaning. ZH機 and ZH机 are cognate and have the same meaning, so they can't be false friends.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
________
MY MUSIC | MY PLANTS
________
MY MUSIC | MY PLANTS
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
I guess my own understanding of "false friend" has been too narrow up to now. I went to the Wikipedia article to bone up on the subject, but while I find the definition and examples there a bit nebulous, I guess I must relent. The German page, after talking about various types of false friends, then goes on to list a number of examples that I would actually consider false friends -- things you don't think you have to worry about in parsing/translating, but in fact, have different meanings from what you'd expect.Imralu wrote:Correct. The whole point is that it looks like a friend, but it's not.GrandPiano wrote:Are you sure? To my understanding, false friends don't have to be cognates, although they usually at least appear to be.clawgrip wrote:A false friend should be cognate but with a different meaning. ZH機 and ZH机 are cognate and have the same meaning, so they can't be false friends.
Il est sensible. is not He is sensible.
that sort of thing.
I personally wouldn't consider bra and bra to be false friends, nor Rat and rat
rolig vs. rolig seems to be one.
Cross-Pondian meanings of
pants
knickers
fanny
seem fertile ground for this sort of thing.
As for simplified Chinese 机 (which, as has been conceded, usually occurs in compounds), how could one possibly misinterpret that as desk or vice versa? I would hope it clear that I don't think the physical Japanese utterances of "tsukue" and Chinese "ji1" are related (beyond onyomi, and I don't know any Japanese words with this (let alone Chinese besides 茶机 (usually 茶几). The Wikipedia article talks about "homoglyphs", which may have been a better term for what clawgrip and I were discussing (and less to fewer misunderstandings). Perhaps in complete isolation one could misconstrue meaning, but if a false friend is the "false friend of a translator", how could this be misinterpreted in any sort of context?
Not that there aren't Sino-Japanese kanji misunderstandings or Chinese inter-dialectal shenanigans, but I don't think it occurs here.
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
- DesEsseintes
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Lao Kou wrote:fanny
*giggles childishly
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- mayan
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Perhaps it would be easier to imagine the other way around; since there are many characters that can be used on their own in Japanese but only occur in compounds in Mandarin (e.g. 足, 今, 体), it's possible that someone only familiar with the Chinese meaning of 机 might see 机 used in Japanese and assume it means "machine" or "opportunity".Lao Kou wrote:As for simplified Chinese 机 (which, as has been conceded, usually occurs in compounds), how could one possibly misinterpret that as desk or vice versa?
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
DesEsseintes wrote:*giggles childishlyLao Kou wrote:fanny
I'm a caution.
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Another Chinese/Japanese orthographical false friend:
走 zǒu "to walk" - 走る hashiru "to run"
走 zǒu "to walk" - 走る hashiru "to run"
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
In that vein, Mandarin's 我先走 (wǒ xiān zǒu)(Japanese's お先に(失礼します)) (osaki ni (shitsurei shimasu)) (Pardon me for leaving (first). (used when leaving, while others remain) is in Shanghainese 我先跑 (ngu xi bo - an on-the-fly romanization as I'm too lazy to spend time on this).GrandPiano wrote:Another Chinese/Japanese orthographical false friend: 走 zǒu "to walk" - 走る hashiru "to run"
As with the 机 discussion earlier, you need only go back in time to see Chinese 走 in the sense of "run" (cf. 奔走).
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
- Thrice Xandvii
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Wait... Does that mean something other than "butt"?DesEsseintes wrote:Lao Kou wrote:fanny
*giggles childishly
Last edited by Thrice Xandvii on 13 Aug 2017 19:07, edited 1 time in total.
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
It does: Definition 2. Tee hee.Thrice Xandvii wrote:Wait... Does Tha mean something other than "butt"?DesEsseintes wrote:*giggles childishlyLao Kou wrote:fanny
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
This is why Commonwealthians find it so hilarious that Americans say "fanny pack" ... mind you, we call them "bum bags" (at least in Australia) and "fanny pack" would make a lot more sense considering they're worn on the front, not the back.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
________
MY MUSIC | MY PLANTS
________
MY MUSIC | MY PLANTS
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Indeed, no matter the dialect, getting it on the expected side of the human body seems elusive in terminology. But what are the options? "Fanny" in American English is a childish word for "bottom" (as is "bum"). A "muff pack"(rather crude)? References to the abdomen hardly capture the imagination... Belly bag?Imralu wrote:This is why Commonwealthians find it so hilarious that Americans say "fanny pack" ... mind you, we call them "bum bags" (at least in Australia) and "fanny pack" would make a lot more sense considering they're worn on the front, not the back.
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Mandarin 一 yī [ji˥] "one" - Cantonese 二 ji6 [ji˨] "two"
八 baat3 "eight" - 百 baak3 "hundred"
八 baat3 "eight" - 百 baak3 "hundred"
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Cuntpack? Ballsack? Dick bag? Crotch pocket?Lao Kou wrote: But what are the options? "Fanny" in American English is a childish word for "bottom" (as is "bum"). A "muff pack"(rather crude)? References to the abdomen hardly capture the imagination... Belly bag?
I like the last one the most. It sounds like crotch rocket, which is what we call miniature motorbikes in Australia ...
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
________
MY MUSIC | MY PLANTS
________
MY MUSIC | MY PLANTS
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
metallic /məˈtæ.lɪk/
метелик /mɛˈtɛ.lɪk/ - butterfly
Stumbled upon this Ukrainian word while creating vocabulary and I knew the word had a familiar sound!
метелик /mɛˈtɛ.lɪk/ - butterfly
Stumbled upon this Ukrainian word while creating vocabulary and I knew the word had a familiar sound!
Native:
Learning: , , ,
Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang
old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs
Learning: , , ,
Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang
old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Also reminds me of Schmetterlingixals wrote: метелик /mɛˈtɛ.lɪk/ - butterfly
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
マグロ maguro "tuna" - mackerel
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
In the local language spoken around the area of Pesaro, in central Italy, "I don't want" is translated as "en voi".
In Finnish, "en voi" means "I can not, I am not able to".
I've always found it funny, because you know, "I can't/don't know how to do that" is often an excuse to avoid doing something you don't want to do.
| | Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...
Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...
Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...
Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
제일 tɕ͡e.il "First; The most; Best" Jail
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
-JRR Tolkien
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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
English promise and promiscuous
they look similar but the meanings are virtually unrelated
they look similar but the meanings are virtually unrelated
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.