I was reading viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6208 and it got me thinking of how realistic the phonemes of my conlang Jbiituani are and if there's any way that I could improve it
Vowls: a i u
Consonants: m b n t d s z ɬ l j k g x ɣ χ ʁ h ʤ w
Phonemes
Re: Phonemes
Egoquosamopilas wrote:I was reading viewtopic.php?f=31&t=6208 and it got me thinking of how realistic the phonemes of my conlang Jbiituani are and if there's any way that I could improve it
Vowls: a i u
Consonants: m b n t d s z ɬ l j k g x ɣ χ ʁ h ʤ w
Code: Select all
t k
b d ʤ g
m n
s ɬ x χ h
z ɣ ʁ
w l j
On the note of Inuktitut, initially, my only real issue was /ʤ/, but apparently the Natsilingmiutut dialect has /ɟ/, so close enough.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Phonemes
(Also, imo, seems pretty similar to Arabic, which I don't think has tʃ, but has d͡ʒ)
Spoiler:
Re: Phonemes
Which I always found interesting. IIRC, Arabic /dʒ/ derives from an older /g/, just fronting it, then shifting to an affricate, but that process didn't affect Old Arabic /k/, except in a few dialects like Iraqi Arabic. The universal fronting of Old Arabic /g/ must have happened before the dialectal fronting of Old Arabic /k/ and that's interesting as hell!qwed117 wrote:(Also, imo, seems pretty similar to Arabic, which I don't think has tʃ, but has d͡ʒ)
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Phonemes
Just a few clarifications- the fronting of k is a conditioned change not an unconditional one. Furthermore, the dialect of Cairo preserves the original sound of /g/ unconditionally. This is because the dialects are not direct descendants of classical arabic but rather mixed languages, descended from divergent dialects that were held to a conservative form by the common knowledge of the classical language barring certain exceptional areas such as the western half of North Africa (this is not because of its nature as a frontier- there are farther places such as sudan with more conservative dialects).sangi39 wrote:Which I always found interesting. IIRC, Arabic /dʒ/ derives from an older /g/, just fronting it, then shifting to an affricate, but that process didn't affect Old Arabic /k/, except in a few dialects like Iraqi Arabic. The universal fronting of Old Arabic /g/ must have happened before the dialectal fronting of Old Arabic /k/ and that's interesting as hell!qwed117 wrote:(Also, imo, seems pretty similar to Arabic, which I don't think has tʃ, but has d͡ʒ)
Generally the reason why this weird stuff happens to semitic languages is because the nature of the root system can very easily cause conditional changes to become unconditional due to analogy, as more and more stems of a root are affected. This is also why not only arabic but most arabian langs have a /b/ but no /f/ (then this assymetry spread areally).
Re: Phonemes
Thaaaank you! I thought there was a dialect of Arabic that preserved /g/, but I couldn't for the life me if a) it existed at all and b) which dialect it was if it did exist.Isfendil wrote:Just a few clarifications- the fronting of k is a conditioned change not an unconditional one. Furthermore, the dialect of Cairo preserves the original sound of /g/ unconditionally. This is because the dialects are not direct descendants of classical arabic but rather mixed languages, descended from divergent dialects that were held to a conservative form by the common knowledge of the classical language barring certain exceptional areas such as the western half of North Africa (this is not because of its nature as a frontier- there are farther places such as sudan with more conservative dialects).sangi39 wrote:Which I always found interesting. IIRC, Arabic /dʒ/ derives from an older /g/, just fronting it, then shifting to an affricate, but that process didn't affect Old Arabic /k/, except in a few dialects like Iraqi Arabic. The universal fronting of Old Arabic /g/ must have happened before the dialectal fronting of Old Arabic /k/ and that's interesting as hell!qwed117 wrote:(Also, imo, seems pretty similar to Arabic, which I don't think has tʃ, but has d͡ʒ)
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: Phonemes
Some Yemeni dialects have /ɟ/ instead of /g/ - I can’t remember if this was supposed to be the earlier form but Yemeni has had /g/ for /q/ for a long time, so much so that some reciters of the Quran always use /g/. Interestingly Gulf dialects have /q/ > /g/ > /dʒ/ near front vowels e.g. qariib becomes jriib, muqaabil is mjaabil etc. Sharjah in the UAE is actually Shaariqah.
Re: Phonemes
I'm guessing you mean /b/ but no /p/? In any case, that's a good explanation for the fronting of /g/, but I'm less sure about the labials. Lenition of /p/ to a fricative (while /b/ remains unaffected) seems to be a fairly common sound change and not really dependent on other features of the language. For example, it's taken place in Japanese, which is about as far from triconsonantal root systems as you can get.Isfendil wrote: ↑08 Nov 2017 16:29Generally the reason why this weird stuff happens to semitic languages is because the nature of the root system can very easily cause conditional changes to become unconditional due to analogy, as more and more stems of a root are affected. This is also why not only arabic but most arabian langs have a /b/ but no /f/ (then this assymetry spread areally).