False cognates
- WeepingElf
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Re: False cognates
German Kapuze means 'hood' rather than 'coat', but the etymology you give is IMHO probably correct.
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- k1234567890y
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Re: False cognates
English stall and stable(noun.)
The former is ultimately from PIE *stel-; the latter is ultimately from PIE *steh₂-; however, it is possible that *stel- is a root extension of *steh₂-, if *stel- is a root extension of *steh₂-, the the English words will be true cognates, though a pretty distant one.
I posted this because I just found out that the Romanian cognate of English stable(noun.) is staul, which is reasonably similar to stall in spelling and pronounciation.
The former is ultimately from PIE *stel-; the latter is ultimately from PIE *steh₂-; however, it is possible that *stel- is a root extension of *steh₂-, if *stel- is a root extension of *steh₂-, the the English words will be true cognates, though a pretty distant one.
I posted this because I just found out that the Romanian cognate of English stable(noun.) is staul, which is reasonably similar to stall in spelling and pronounciation.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
- WeepingElf
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Re: False cognates
I am not sure, but I do think that *stel- is indeed related to *steh₂- in some way. It would surprise me if there was no connection at all.k1234567890y wrote: ↑15 Jul 2022 20:38 English stall and stable(noun.)
The former is ultimately from PIE *stel-; the latter is ultimately from PIE *steh₂-; however, it is possible that *stel- is a root extension of *steh₂-, if *stel- is a root extension of *steh₂-, the the English words will be true cognates, though a pretty distant one.
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Re: False cognates
you are right, *stel- could be a root extension of *steh₂-, but currently we are not sure about this.WeepingElf wrote: ↑15 Jul 2022 20:45I am not sure, but I do think that *stel- is indeed related to *steh₂- in some way. It would surprise me if there was no connection at all.k1234567890y wrote: ↑15 Jul 2022 20:38 English stall and stable(noun.)
The former is ultimately from PIE *stel-; the latter is ultimately from PIE *steh₂-; however, it is possible that *stel- is a root extension of *steh₂-, if *stel- is a root extension of *steh₂-, the the English words will be true cognates, though a pretty distant one.
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: False cognates
English mirror < Old French mireor (literally "watcher")
Arabic مرآة mirʔā 'mirror' (formed with the mi- instrument prefix and the root r-ʔ-y, cf. the verb رأى raʔā 'to see')
Although French Wiktionary informs me that at least one etymologist (Antoine-Paulin Pihan) thinks the French word is a borrowing from Arabic. I doubt it though: Ibero-Romance doesn't have the Arabic borrowing, Catalan has a similar formation but using a different suffix (mirall), and Old English apparently had sċēawere which is also literally "watcher"—maybe it's a calque in some direction or other.
Arabic مرآة mirʔā 'mirror' (formed with the mi- instrument prefix and the root r-ʔ-y, cf. the verb رأى raʔā 'to see')
Although French Wiktionary informs me that at least one etymologist (Antoine-Paulin Pihan) thinks the French word is a borrowing from Arabic. I doubt it though: Ibero-Romance doesn't have the Arabic borrowing, Catalan has a similar formation but using a different suffix (mirall), and Old English apparently had sċēawere which is also literally "watcher"—maybe it's a calque in some direction or other.
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Re: False cognates
English corner (a borrowing from Anglo-Norman / Old French, derived from Latin cornū 'horn')
Sanskrit कोण koṇa- 'corner' (a borrowing from Dravidian)
Sanskrit कोण koṇa- 'corner' (a borrowing from Dravidian)
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Re: False cognates
Shoshoni /nɨwɨ/ "Shoshoni Person" vs Nahuatl <Nahua> /Nawa/ "Nahua Person". Despite being self-designations for Uto-Aztecan speaking people, that are of the form /nVwV/ these are unrelated. First of all, Shoshoni /ɨ/ corresponds to Nahuan /e/. Second of all, /w/ in Shoshoni can come from PUA *m, and there are other Numic languages where the form is /nɨmɨ/, and the *m>w shift is unique to Central Numic, and has no convergent shift elsewhere in UA .
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Re: False cognates
Korean 많이 'a lot', pronounced [mani]
English many
English many
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Re: False cognates
Hebrew דֶּרֶךְ dérekh 'road'
Russian доро́га 'road'
Mandarin 道路 dàolù 'road'
Russian доро́га 'road'
Mandarin 道路 dàolù 'road'
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- k1234567890y
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Re: False cognates
Arabic وَسَط (wasaṭ) "middle, centre, waist" / Egyptian Arabic وسط (weṣṭ) "middle, centre, waist"
English waist
English waist
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: False cognates
English bezel vs. bevel, both referring to sloping edges that are not perpendicular to a face, the former in gemstone cutting, and the latter in most other uses.
Both words are from Old French. Bezel is from biseau, a variant of bijou 'gem', from a Breton bisoù 'ring'. Bevel is from French baïf "open-mouthed, gaping", from Medieval Latin bado, 'to yawn', of onomatopoeic origin.
Both words are from Old French. Bezel is from biseau, a variant of bijou 'gem', from a Breton bisoù 'ring'. Bevel is from French baïf "open-mouthed, gaping", from Medieval Latin bado, 'to yawn', of onomatopoeic origin.
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- Dormouse559
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Re: False cognates
heriot - a payment made to a lord on the death of tenant
I thought the word might be connected to heir and heritage, so ultimately from Latin heres. The TV program that used the term said a heriot allowed a family to inherit the land lease from their dead family member. Also, -ot looks like a French diminutive. Turns out the term is purely Germanic, from OE hereġeatwa, which literally means "army gear." That makes more sense in light of another meaning Wiktionary gives: the return of military equipment.
I thought the word might be connected to heir and heritage, so ultimately from Latin heres. The TV program that used the term said a heriot allowed a family to inherit the land lease from their dead family member. Also, -ot looks like a French diminutive. Turns out the term is purely Germanic, from OE hereġeatwa, which literally means "army gear." That makes more sense in light of another meaning Wiktionary gives: the return of military equipment.
- DesEsseintes
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Re: False cognates
Pawnee: piita(a)rau - husband
Sanskrit: पितरौ pitarau - father.DU.NOM
Sanskrit: पितरौ pitarau - father.DU.NOM
Re: False cognates
Also Vietnamese cắt, which is unrelated to the Chinese terms 切 cit3 and 割 got3 'to cut', cắt being < Proto-Mon-Khmer *kac 'to pluck, break'
Vietnamese bò 'water buffalo; cow'
Latin bōs 'cow, bull, ox' < PIE *gʷṓws
English better
Persian بهتر behtar 'better' < from به beh 'good' (< Middle Persian weh < Old Persian vahu) + comparative تر -tar
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- k1234567890y
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Re: False cognates
Chinese 蘿蔔 /lwɔ³⁵ b̥wɔ³/ v.s. Proto-Germanic *rōbǭ (cf. Standard German Rübe Swedish ruva)
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- WeepingElf
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Re: False cognates
Would you mind giving glosses? Most of us have no idea what the Chinese word even means.k1234567890y wrote: ↑04 Nov 2022 19:21 Chinese 蘿蔔 /lwɔ³⁵ b̥wɔ³/ v.s. Proto-Germanic *rōbǭ (cf. Standard German Rübe Swedish ruva)
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Re: False cognates
Chinese 蘿蔔 means "radish" and is also used in words indicating "carrot"; also 蘿蔔 itself does not seem to be a morpheme.WeepingElf wrote: ↑04 Nov 2022 20:07Would you mind giving glosses? Most of us have no idea what the Chinese word even means.k1234567890y wrote: ↑04 Nov 2022 19:21 Chinese 蘿蔔 /lwɔ³⁵ b̥wɔ³/ v.s. Proto-Germanic *rōbǭ (cf. Standard German Rübe Swedish ruva)
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: False cognates
more:
Chinese 臺 /tʰaɪ̯³⁵/ "tower; lookout; stage; platform; support; stand; base; etc." v.s. English dais
Chinese 臺 /tʰaɪ̯³⁵/ "tower; lookout; stage; platform; support; stand; base; etc." v.s. English dais
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: False cognates
Not to mention 塔 tǎ 'stupa, pagoda, tower', plus the word "tower" itself...k1234567890y wrote: ↑08 Nov 2022 07:07Chinese 臺 /tʰaɪ̯³⁵/ "tower; lookout; stage; platform; support; stand; base; etc." v.s. English dais
I got the following regarding Mandarin from a website years ago, and I had forgotten to post them here. I made sure none of the following have been posted in the thread before.
背後 bèihòu 'behind'
English behind
簿 bù (bound morpheme meaning 'book'; appears in e.g. 相簿 xiàngbù 'photo album', 電話簿 diànhuàbù 'telephone directory')
English book
唱 chàng 'to sing'
French chanter 'to sing'
旦 dàn 'dawn'
English dawn
菲薄 fěibó 'meagre, humble, low-quality'
English feeble
過 guò 'to go over/through'
English go
忽然 hūrán 'suddenly'
English hurrying
譏 jī 'to jeer at, mock someone'
English jeer
決定 juédìng 'to decide'
Latin jūdicāre 'to judge, be a judge'
肯 kěn 'be willing to (do something)'
English can
口語 kǒuyǔ 'spoken language'
English koine
酷似 kùsì 'to resemble someone a lot' (like a child and their parents)
Latin/English quasi
蕾 lěi 'flower bud' (commonly used as a given name)
Hawaiian/English lei
馬 mǎ 'horse'
English mare < Proto-Germanic *marhijō
美麗 měilì 'beautiful'
Latin mel 'honey; darling' (attested as a term of endearment in Plautus and Cicero)
面 miàn 'face'
Latin mēns 'mind'
牧童 mùtóng 'shepherd (boy)'
English mutton
盤 pán 'plate, tray'
English pan
鯊 shā 'shark'
English shark
身體 shēntǐ 'body; one's health'
English sanity
實 shí (bound morpheme meaning 'true, real'), pronounced [ʂɨ˧˥]
English sure
師傅 shīfu 'master (of an art)'
English chief
頌歌 sònggē 'carol, hymn song'
English song
搜查 sōuchá 'to search'
English to search
孫 sūn (bound morpheme meaning 'grandchild, descendant' as in 孫子 sūnzi 'grandson')
English son
Classical Chinese 涕 tì 'tear'
English tear
投 tóu 'to throw'
English throw
偉大 wěidà 'huge, great; grand'
English wide
轉 zhuǎn 'to turn', pronounced [ʈʂwæn˨˩˧]
English to turn
This word used to have a -p even! As in the Cantonese pronunciation kap1.GrandPiano wrote: ↑21 Jan 2015 21:10 How about English "give" and Mandarin "gěi" (traditional 給, simplified 给)?
Last edited by Sequor on 08 Nov 2022 22:13, edited 1 time in total.
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- k1234567890y
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Re: False cognates
@Sequor nice (:
however, there's at least one pair of word that might be true cognates:
however, there's at least one pair of word that might be true cognates:
The Proto Germanic *marhijō is from Proto-Germanic *marhaz, which in turn from Proto-Indo-European *márkos, and the Proto-Indo-European word might be from a wanderwort across Eurasian languages and is said to be from the same source as Proto-Sino-Tibetan *k-m-raŋ ~ s-raŋ, and the Proto-Sino-Tibetan word gives rise to Old Chinese 馬 /*mˤraʔ/ (B-S), /*mraːʔ/ (ZS) ("horse"), the direect ancestor of Mandarin 馬 mǎ 'horse'. Also compare the word to Mongolian морь (morĭ, “horse”), Manchu morin, “horse”, etc.馬 mǎ 'horse'
English mare < Proto-Germanic *marhijō
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.