To continue
le me śapi
3.n COP.3.sg DEM.LOC.nonsp
“It’s somewhere/someplace”
le me wii
3.n COP.3.sg DEM.LOC.spec
“It’s here”
noju mee
ring DEM.spec
“This ring is nice”
noju anai aura
ring DEM.quality.spec colour
“This ring’s colour is nice”
noju ana aura
ring DEM.quality.nonsp colour
“This ring could be any colour and it would be nice”
kepe ana aura pemiia
dress DEM.quality.nonsp colour COP.3.sg.speculative
“The dress can be any colour”
How do your languages treat (in)definiteness?
- Arayaz
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Re: How do your languages treat (in)definiteness?
In future NE Areyaxi, definiteness is basically a way of saying "I would use anaphora for this but that would be ambiguous."
In future Aryayaxi and Orayoxe, the definite article basically means "you know which one I mean (because I mentioned it)," the indefinite article means "I'm introducing a new one," and the OAO article basically means "you know which one I mean (because it's famous and important)" ─ that would be used with names, languages, etc. The indefinite article indicates number, but the definite article does not, and it's not morphologically indicated on the noun either.
In future Aryayaxi and Orayoxe, the definite article basically means "you know which one I mean (because I mentioned it)," the indefinite article means "I'm introducing a new one," and the OAO article basically means "you know which one I mean (because it's famous and important)" ─ that would be used with names, languages, etc. The indefinite article indicates number, but the definite article does not, and it's not morphologically indicated on the noun either.
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Re: How do your languages treat (in)definiteness?
What about '(my) mother', '(his) home' etc.?Arayaz wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 15:19 In future NE Areyaxi, definiteness is basically a way of saying "I would use anaphora for this but that would be ambiguous."
In future Aryayaxi and Orayoxe, the definite article basically means "you know which one I mean (because I mentioned it)," the indefinite article means "I'm introducing a new one," and the OAO article basically means "you know which one I mean (because it's famous and important)" ─ that would be used with names, languages, etc. The indefinite article indicates number, but the definite article does not, and it's not morphologically indicated on the noun either.
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Re: How do your languages treat (in)definiteness?
I assume you're talking about the second system ─ these cases would probably use the definite article, since it's obvious which it is, but not because there's only one mother in the land.Omzinesý wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 17:15What about '(my) mother', '(his) home' etc.?Arayaz wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 15:19 In future NE Areyaxi, definiteness is basically a way of saying "I would use anaphora for this but that would be ambiguous."
In future Aryayaxi and Orayoxe, the definite article basically means "you know which one I mean (because I mentioned it)," the indefinite article means "I'm introducing a new one," and the OAO article basically means "you know which one I mean (because it's famous and important)" ─ that would be used with names, languages, etc. The indefinite article indicates number, but the definite article does not, and it's not morphologically indicated on the noun either.
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Re: How do your languages treat (in)definiteness?
This feels wrong to me. Definite NPs are more likely to have number distinctions than indefinite ones. There is not much difference in meaning between 'An elephant is huge' and 'Elephants are huge'; there is much more of a difference between 'The elephant is huge' and 'The elephants are huge'. And there are indeed languages such as Basque which distinguish number on definite NPs but not on indefinite ones.
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Re: How do your languages treat (in)definiteness?
The definite article comes from a demonstrative that doesn't distinguish number, and the indefinite articles are "one" and "some."WeepingElf wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 18:12This feels wrong to me. Definite NPs are more likely to have number distinctions than indefinite ones. There is not much difference in meaning between 'An elephant is huge' and 'Elephants are huge'; there is much more of a difference between 'The elephant is huge' and 'The elephants are huge'. And there are indeed languages such as Basque which distinguish number on definite NPs but not on indefinite ones.
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Re: How do your languages treat (in)definiteness?
Mariupol Gothic doesn't have a real indefinite article, though you could use the numeral "ită" meaning "one" after the noun. This then is reduced like a clitic.
C.f. mannătă "one man" (opposed to many men, or this man specifically)
Definiteness on the other hand is marked using the article þă. (From, unsurprisingly, PGmc. *sa). It retains no gender alternations and is quite similar to English the.
ѱъ листъ минъ
þă līstă mīnă
/θə liːstə miːnə/
"the smallest moon"
C.f. mannătă "one man" (opposed to many men, or this man specifically)
Definiteness on the other hand is marked using the article þă. (From, unsurprisingly, PGmc. *sa). It retains no gender alternations and is quite similar to English the.
ѱъ листъ минъ
þă līstă mīnă
/θə liːstə miːnə/
"the smallest moon"
Re: How do your languages treat (in)definiteness?
OkArayaz wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 17:52I assume you're talking about the second system ─ these cases would probably use the definite article, since it's obvious which it is, but not because there's only one mother in the land.Omzinesý wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 17:15What about '(my) mother', '(his) home' etc.?Arayaz wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 15:19 In future NE Areyaxi, definiteness is basically a way of saying "I would use anaphora for this but that would be ambiguous."
In future Aryayaxi and Orayoxe, the definite article basically means "you know which one I mean (because I mentioned it)," the indefinite article means "I'm introducing a new one," and the OAO article basically means "you know which one I mean (because it's famous and important)" ─ that would be used with names, languages, etc. The indefinite article indicates number, but the definite article does not, and it's not morphologically indicated on the noun either.
So it's a "normal" definite article
Language-internal definite (mentioned or hinted to)
Language-externally definite (known from the context)
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Re: How do your languages treat (in)definiteness?
Yeah. Sorry if I didn't say it clearly.Omzinesý wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 21:06OkArayaz wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 17:52I assume you're talking about the second system ─ these cases would probably use the definite article, since it's obvious which it is, but not because there's only one mother in the land.Omzinesý wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 17:15What about '(my) mother', '(his) home' etc.?Arayaz wrote: ↑20 Feb 2024 15:19 In future NE Areyaxi, definiteness is basically a way of saying "I would use anaphora for this but that would be ambiguous."
In future Aryayaxi and Orayoxe, the definite article basically means "you know which one I mean (because I mentioned it)," the indefinite article means "I'm introducing a new one," and the OAO article basically means "you know which one I mean (because it's famous and important)" ─ that would be used with names, languages, etc. The indefinite article indicates number, but the definite article does not, and it's not morphologically indicated on the noun either.
So it's a "normal" definite article
Language-internal definite (mentioned or hinted to)
Language-externally definite (known from the context)
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