Quick Diachronics Challenge

[Arayaz]

You identified the problem but you need to think outside the box in order to solve it

Ah, come on ... how can I think outside the box here??? What's left?
mʷa?

[Creyeditor]

You are very close.

[Arayaz]

You are very close.

*mβʷa? Wait no. Outside the box... *ṽa???

[Creyeditor]

That's further away

[Davush]

Not to spoil the fun or anything, but I thought part of the game was to reconstruct what is possible from the given cognates. If the exact proto-word is unretrievable on the basis of the cognates, then surely the closest one should just win? Otherwise it literally just becomes a guessing game...

[Creyeditor]

It is retrievable, maybe even more than that. But I agree that the closest should win. That's why I said, I don't want to wait much longer before revealing it.
So, why spend more time waiting. Here is the solution I had in mind. The protoform was simple: *ma, my favorite syllable.

Code: Select all

*ma
    >mba
    >>ba
    >>>pa
    >>>bæ
    >>mba:
    >>>m: a:
    >>>mpà:
    >mua
    >>muã
    >>>muang
    >>>mõ
    >>mwa
    >>>mva
    >>>wa

I guess the difficult part was that many changes increaded the length of the form. Here is a commented version

Spoiler:

*ma
>mba (nasals become prenasalized stops word-initially)
>>ba (prenasalized stops merge with voiced stops)
>>>pa (voiced stops become voiceless word-initially)
>>>bæ (fronting of short low vowels)
>>mba: (lengthening of vowels in open syllables)
>>>m: a: (prenasalized stops become long nasals)
>>>mpà: (voiced prenasalized stops cause low tones and devoice)
>mua (low vowels diphthongize after labials)
>>muã (nasal harmony)
>>>muang (nasal vowels 'unpack' into a vowel-velar nasal sequence word-finally)
>>>mõ (former diphthongs monophtongize word-finally)
>>mwa (diphthongs become a glide vowel sequence)
>>>mva (w > v)
>>>wa (onset clusters simplify)

[Davush]

It is retrievable, maybe even more than that. But I agree that the closest should win. That's why I said, I don't want to wait much longer before revealing it.
So, why spend more time waiting. Here is the solution I had in mind. The protoform was simple: *ma, my favorite syllable.

Ha! Who would have guessed.

[VaptuantaDoi]

I thought as much. Obviously it would have been "cheating", but just by comparing all the % figures you gave everyone's guesses, *ma and *man were the only options left.

[Creyeditor]

This was definitely fun (at least for me). @Arayaz: You are the winner. You can provide a new challenge or say that you don't want to.

[Arayaz]

This was definitely fun (at least for me). @Arayaz: You are the winner. You can provide a new challenge or say that you don't want to.

Oh yay! I'll recruit from Tyuns; that'll give quite a range.

[Arayaz]

Okay, here we go!

˥ is high tone, for those curious.

[al.tʉː]
[hæ.t͡ɬæ˥]
[ad͡ɮ]
[ataɬ]
[es.ttaː]
[has.stɐ˥]

I was planning to do a wider range, but I realized that I don't actually know the proto for them all. Also I had to remove the Qiřkilet’ for it because it hasn't changed at all since the proto lol. Samples from Lhvọvaever, Lhạrre, Erụụřangụšerụ, Talhelạrriler, Haesičáéyae, Ereyayẹ (not in that order).

Edit: This was my 1,200th post!! Thanks to Sketch for pointing it out lol

Edit: Misspelled Erụụřangụšerụ and Talhelạrriler.

[Creyeditor]

My first guess hal.ta

[Arayaz]

My first guess hal.ta

Creyeditor:

Spoiler:

I would say 40% correct, but probably not the phonemes you think. A bit more info: tone was present in the protolang.

Considering, I think it unlikely that anyone will get the proto-form perfectly, so I suppose the closest guess will win.

[Creyeditor]

Here is a revised guess.

Spoiler:

[has.stɐ˥] [hæ.t͡ɬæ˥] [a.taɬ] [es.ttaː] [al.t ʉː] [ad͡ɮ]
[has.stɐ˥ hæ.t͡ɬæ˥] [a.taɬ es.ttaː] [al.t ʉː ad͡ɮ]
[*hæs.t͡ɬæ˥] [*æs.ttaːɬ] [*ad͡ɮ.tʉː]
[*hæs.t͡ɬæ˥ *æs.ttaːɬ *ad͡ɮ.tʉː]
[**hæd͡ɮ.tt͡ɬaː˥ɬ]

Which doesn't share a whole lot of segments with my earlier guess

[Arayaz]

Here is a revised guess.

Spoiler:

[has.stɐ˥] [hæ.t͡ɬæ˥] [a.taɬ] [es.ttaː] [al.t ʉː] [ad͡ɮ]
[has.stɐ˥ hæ.t͡ɬæ˥] [a.taɬ es.ttaː] [al.t ʉː ad͡ɮ]
[*hæs.t͡ɬæ˥] [*æs.ttaːɬ] [*ad͡ɮ.tʉː]
[*hæs.t͡ɬæ˥ *æs.ttaːɬ *ad͡ɮ.tʉː]
[**hæd͡ɮ.tt͡ɬaː˥ɬ]

Which doesn't share a whole lot of segments with my earlier guess

Spoiler:

Much further away, I'm afraid.
As for your groupings: groupings may not be too much of a useful tool here, since it ancestrally was basically a dialect continuum. However:

• The first group ([has.stɐ˥] and [hæ.t͡ɬæ˥]) has shared influence, you are correct to a point there.
• The second group ([a.taɬ] and [es.ttaː]) is not quite valid. Same story for the third group.
• Your first guess was close in terms of word shape.

[VaptuantaDoi]

I guess *hatɬaɬá

[Arayaz]

I guess *hatɬaɬá

Spoiler:

Pretty far off in terms of structure. You are correct that the final vowel has high tone, but it is not an /a/. Also, the h- is an areal innovation rather than a retention.

Closest so far has been Creyeditor's first.

[Arayaz]

Anyone else care to submit a guess?

[_Just_A_Sketch]

Kinda rushed because I don't have a lot of time at the moment but my guess is

Spoiler:

hal.tal˥

[Arayaz]

Kinda rushed because I don't have a lot of time at the moment but my guess is

Spoiler:

hal.tal˥

Sketch:

Spoiler:

• The h- is an areal innovation rather than a retention.
• 33% of your phonemes are correct.

I realized I forgot to give percentages for VaptuantaDoi and for Creyeditor's second guess, so:
VaptuantaDoi:

Spoiler:

17% correct (i.e. two segments)

Creyeditor's second:

Spoiler:

14% correct (i.e. one segment)

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Veterans of the game, let me know if I've been too forthcoming or too reticent with information. Also, I'd be able to give more in-depth responses if people posted their thought process and/or guesses at groupings and intermediate forms.