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 Post subject: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 15:45 
roman
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This is a thread to discuss both a question I have about an economic situation and how your worlds economics work.

I would like to see what kind of stage development is your people in society, technology and monetary? Do they use commidity, representive or fiat money? Why is it they have that?

Now for my discussion issue.

I have a world where its roughly around 1850-1910 and I am considering wether to have commidity money or representive money. The issue is simply that the world is so large and massive that getting so many cultures to agree on a specific metal to be precious enough to be represented by local currencies seems a bit odd to me.

This has lead me to think of if perhaps some cultures deem gold the standard money and another have, lets say, titanium just for the sake of argument?

What would happen if you have 2 blocks where they value different metals and have different kinds of "Gold standard" so to speak? I am having issues imagening the consequences of such a situation which is why I am asking, the only issue I am able to think of is that the metals will tend to be transfered from where they are less valueble to where its more valueble but any more detailed consequences I am unable to imagen as I dont have enough experience here. What could possibly happen?

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 17:38 
korean
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All of Tehcaria uses fiat money. For example, the Cryset use coins made out of ice. At first, the size of the coin determined its value, but after there was a large epidemic of people melting coins down and freezing them back into large ones, the weight of the coin determined the value.

As for you example, why hasn't the government of your conworld simply said how much the commodity is worth? They can simply say "We use gold, and its worth X amount".

Hell, I wonder why people just wouldn't start using coins made out of metal as fiat money.

/probably failed economics forever with this post

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 18:51 
sinic
sinic

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zelos wrote:
This is a thread to discuss both a question I have about an economic situation and how your worlds economics work.

I would like to see what kind of stage development is your people in society, technology and monetary? Do they use commidity, representive or fiat money? Why is it they have that?

Now for my discussion issue.

I have a world where its roughly around 1850-1910 and I am considering wether to have commidity money or representive money. The issue is simply that the world is so large and massive that getting so many cultures to agree on a specific metal to be precious enough to be represented by local currencies seems a bit odd to me.

This has lead me to think of if perhaps some cultures deem gold the standard money and another have, lets say, titanium just for the sake of argument?

What would happen if you have 2 blocks where they value different metals and have different kinds of "Gold standard" so to speak? I am having issues imagening the consequences of such a situation which is why I am asking, the only issue I am able to think of is that the metals will tend to be transfered from where they are less valueble to where its more valueble but any more detailed consequences I am unable to imagen as I dont have enough experience here. What could possibly happen?


Look no further than the real world. The international gold standard is a relatively recent thing - before that, some nations used gold and some used silver.

Nothing special happens, I don't think, at least not with a strict commodity system. Obviously with any representative element, Gresham's Law will take effect.

Surely if you have a culture circa 1900, you need at the very least a representative currency, if not a fully-fledged fiat currency. Financial transactions are just too common by that time to require everybody to weigh every coin.

Remember also that once you have money, it's not longer pure commodity money - the stamp will add to the value (or take away from it), particularly if there are also taxes (i.e. if the stamp not only assures with expertise, but positively provides a ground level of value by redeemability).


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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 19:02 
roman
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Look no further than the real world. The international gold standard is a relatively recent thing - before that, some nations used gold and some used silver.

Nothing special happens, I don't think, at least not with a strict commodity system. Obviously with any representative element, Gresham's Law will take effect.

Quote:
Surely if you have a culture circa 1900, you need at the very least a representative currency, if not a fully-fledged fiat currency. Financial transactions are just too common by that time to require everybody to weigh every coin.


Thats what I have been thinking but the issue is as said the vastness of my world makes it hard having a core value they represent that all can agree on.

Quote:
Remember also that once you have money, it's not longer pure commodity money - the stamp will add to the value (or take away from it), particularly if there are also taxes (i.e. if the stamp not only assures with expertise, but positively provides a ground level of value by redeemability).


Stamp? Could you elaborate this?

Quote:
As for you example, why hasn't the government of your conworld simply said how much the commodity is worth? They can simply say "We use gold, and its worth X amount".


Its easy but what if culture A value gold to titanium at a ratio of 3 to 1 while culture B has it 1 to 2?

The issue is that transactions doesnt seem to work properly or as I think it that culture A will hord gold and B will horde titanium until neither is able to trade with the other because both of them have all the metal they value in their collective resource pool

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Tue 10 Jan 2012, 20:23 
cuneiform
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Pre-Colonial Zelse had no widely accepted "money" at all, trade was mostly done by bartering between clans. The Bagamazh' colonists brought the concept of "coins" with them from the East, and thus introduced a commodity system, with the coins having a worth approximately based on that of the metal they were composed of. This idea stuck, along with many other parts of Bagamazh' culture, even after the formation of the Zelsen Empire.

However, after the Unification, in which the four traditional states and the various Zelsen clans actually began to think of themselves as a singular empire, money moved mostly to a fiat system, which was originally proposed by Empress Mokosh' and the newly officiated Imperial Council. The Treasury became one of the first important sub-divisions of the Council.

Paper notes eventually began to be used alongside cheap metal coins, and by the time of the First Zelsen Campaign in the Great War they had largely replaced coins, and some of the odder denominations were nixed. After the 853 Revolution, only a few types of coins were still made.

In modern times almost all money is handled electronically. Paper notes and coins are still produced, but after the 1046 Socialist Revolution this was limited to denominations of 1 and 10 for coins, and 100, 500, and 1000 for paper notes, as physical currency is generally only used for small transactions. It's still considered somewhat important though, at least culturally. Children are often given coins and notes as gifts during Havje, the Zelsen New Year celebration, and physical currency makes a great aid for very young children to learn simple mathematics and counting.

The basic unit of currency that has existed since the formation of the Council of the Treasury is the zmje. Both the 1 zmje coin and the 10 zmje coin are round, the 1 coin however has a hole through the centre to easily differentiate it from the 10. They are composed of the same aluminium alloy and are silver in colour. Modern paper notes are all embedded with electronic "tags" to help prevent counterfeits (though they still employ plenty of traditional techniques as well).

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Wed 11 Jan 2012, 01:29 
sinic
sinic

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zelos wrote:
Look no further than the real world. The international gold standard is a relatively recent thing - before that, some nations used gold and some used silver.

Nothing special happens, I don't think, at least not with a strict commodity system. Obviously with any representative element, Gresham's Law will take effect.

Quote:
Surely if you have a culture circa 1900, you need at the very least a representative currency, if not a fully-fledged fiat currency. Financial transactions are just too common by that time to require everybody to weigh every coin.


Thats what I have been thinking but the issue is as said the vastness of my world makes it hard having a core value they represent that all can agree on.

So? There's no core value we all agree on now - that's why exchange rates are always moving. Take the gold standard. The gold standard began de facto in 1717 in Britain (although not legally until 1816, or arguably 1844), at a time when most countries used silver, and it wasn't until the late 19th century that it spread across the globe (eg Germany and the USA, both 1873). It wasn't until 1935 that the last country, China, abandoned silver and moved to gold - but Britain had already moved on: in 1844 (arguably the foundation of the gold standard) she had actually moved to a representative notes backed by specie; in 1914 she unofficially suspended that backing to finance the war; in 1925 she completely suspended backing in specie, but instead promised to buy and sell gold at fixed prices; in 1931 she abandoned the gold standard altogether. There has therefore been no time since 1717, or at least since 1816, that all the world's major economies have had currencies with a shared fundamental value - except for the Bretton Woods system (1946-1971).

Having "a core value that all can agree on" throughout a world is an exception, not the norm. The world managed perfectly well in 1860 without a universal currency, why wouldn't yours?

Quote:
Quote:
Remember also that once you have money, it's not longer pure commodity money - the stamp will add to the value (or take away from it), particularly if there are also taxes (i.e. if the stamp not only assures with expertise, but positively provides a ground level of value by redeemability).


Stamp? Could you elaborate this?

Money isn't just lumps of metal. A coin is metal shaped into a particular way, stamped with the mark of an authority. The authority, via the symbols on the coin, says "this coin is worth X amount". Coins therefore have two values - the value as metal, and the face value. Theoretically, these two are the same in a commodity currency. But this is never perfectly the case, because people don't exhaustively assay every coin - they tend to take them at face value, or at a fixed discount from face value. This is how coin-shaving works, for example - you shave the metal off the edges, reducing the metallic value of the coin (keeping some for yourself), but sell on the coin at its face value. When you're the government instead of a smith, of course, you make the coin a little smaller, or you dilute the precious metals with base.
This fact becomes more important when you have taxes, or other transactions that you can pay in money. By assuring people that a coin is worth X, the government pressures itself to accept its own coin as worth X when you pay your taxes. So people will accept a coin as worth X, because they know that even if the metal in it isn't really worth X, they can still use that coin to pay X amount of their taxes.
Quote:
Quote:
As for you example, why hasn't the government of your conworld simply said how much the commodity is worth? They can simply say "We use gold, and its worth X amount".


Its easy but what if culture A value gold to titanium at a ratio of 3 to 1 while culture B has it 1 to 2?

The issue is that transactions doesnt seem to work properly or as I think it that culture A will hord gold and B will horde titanium until neither is able to trade with the other because both of them have all the metal they value in their collective resource pool

Cultures don't 'value' gold, the market values gold. The market sets the price. Assuming relatively extensive merchant networks, the real value of gold to titanium will be similar in place A and place B (gold in place A will be worth what it is in place B, plus the cost of transporting it from B to A, plus some profit extracted by the merchants due to market failures (eg cartels)). In each place, then, if a GOVERNMENT sets an exchange rate between gold and titanium (i.e. adopts a policy of bimetallism), it is likely to overvalue one or other of the metals relative to the real price, and gresham's law will act to ensure that the overvalued metal is hoarded while the undervalued metal is used as currency.

For instance, if Government Alpha tries to set an exchange rate of 3 golds to one titanium, and the actual market value is 1-to-1, then gold is undervalued. People in Country Alpha will therefore hoard titanium and use gold as currency. [If Government Beta has the opposite exchange rate, Betarians will hoard gold and use titanium as currency. Over time, titanium will gravitate toward Alpha and gold toward Beta, and this will change the actual market prices in each place (because the cost of transport will decrease). If this still hasn't brought the price to match the legal exchange rate, there will be deflation in both countries (because if Alpha collects and hoards Beta's currency, Beta's money supply reduces over time, so Beta has deflation). Indeed, any bimetallism, even in one country, faces the problem that if the government incorrectly prices the two metals, one metal will be hoarded, which could greatly reduce the money supply and cause deflation.]

The four possible solutions are obvious:
a) prevent trade between the currency blocs. This prevents currency slipping overseas to be hoarded - it's doable if you have powerful governments and travel is difficult, but otherwise it's very hard to maintain;
b) allow trade, but make sure that the fixed bimetallic exchange rates are correct;
c) don't have a bimetallic exchange rate - the government can choose only one metal to back its currency, and then doesn't need to define the price of the other;
d) put up with deflation.

Of course, in any world, anything that isn't a universal currency can have different prices in different places. This will tend to encourage trade, until the prices equalise (as titanium leaves one country, it becomes scarcer in that country, increasing its price and diminishing the incentive to sell it abroad). [This also happens with currency, but in that case the effect is deflation and inflation (with floating exchange rates) or increasing or decreasing industrial production (with fixed exchange rates)]


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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Wed 11 Jan 2012, 04:14 
cleardarkness
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zelos wrote:
What would happen if you have 2 blocks where they value different metals and have different kinds of "Gold standard" so to speak? I am having issues imagening the consequences of such a situation which is why I am asking, the only issue I am able to think of is that the metals will tend to be transfered from where they are less valueble to where its more valueble but any more detailed consequences I am unable to imagen as I dont have enough experience here. What could possibly happen?


Simple: You'll just open up a profession for currency traders. The practice of buying gold where nobody wants it and selling it where everyone does will work to, in general, raise and lower the price of gold in various markets to equalize it. Gresham's law only comes into effect when the exchange rates can't fluctuate in response to changes in supply and demand, such as, for example, when a local government declares a static exchange rate by fiat like, "one pound of gold is worth two pounds of silver" when the market is willing to trade one pound of gold for three pounds of silver, thus causing silver to be overvalued.

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Wed 11 Jan 2012, 14:33 
roman
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I like what you posted Salmoneus, quick question on situation D, what hapepns if both cultures decied on different metals to back their currency?

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 00:25 
sinic
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What do you mean?

In that situation, silver would flow to the nation with a de facto gold currency and gold would flow to the nation with the de facto silver currency. Both countries would therefore have deflation, with all that that entails.

How much of a problem this is will depend on a) how badly each country is pricing the metals (ie. how much incentive there is to send the devalued metal out of the country), b) how much trade there is between the countries (ie. how rapidly metal can leave the country), and c) how large the supply of metal is (ie. how much has to leave the country before it's noticeable). If the pricing error is small relative to the cost of international trade, the flows of metal will be small enough relative to the overall supply that the deflation from this source is very minor, perhaps not even immediately realised.

If the deflation from this cause becomes a problem it can easily be solved either by repricing the metals, or by no longer pricing the metals. [The latter would leave it to the market, obviously, while the former could be used to force inflation, though clearly only for a limited period and to a limited extent]

Having different currencies also, again obviously, discourages exports and imports to some degree, in part due to inconvenience, and in part due to volatility. A particularly isolationary country might like that, although in almost all cases it would probably harm them economically. A common currency instead promotes trade, and hence wealth.

On the other hand, smaller currencies mean more flexibility. It's easier for a country to use monetary policy (harder with backing than with fiat money, but still possible), and the balance of trade should automatically balance itself in a country with its own currency. Between countries with a common currency, the balance of trade can remain heavily imbalanced. For instance, Spain fell from global dominence in part because it controlled the world's silver supply. Spain was part of the silver standard, along with most of the world, but had a lot more silver than anybody else. As there was more silver (ie money) in Spain than in, for example, Germany, there was higher inflation in Spain - more money available means higher prices, so prices were higher in Spain where the silver was and lower in Germany where there was less silver. This meant that Spaniards bought German goods, because German goods were cheaper - goods flowed into Spain from the rest of Europe, and silver flowed out of Spain into Europe. As there was a constant supply of new silver from the New World mines, Spain was constantly importing. This made it theoretically "richer", because, as everybody could see, they had oodles of cash, and bought lots of nice things for themselves. In the long run, however, it meant that, for centuries, Spanish industry could not compete. This increased unemployment, and discouraged investment, making the economy weaker, and allowing the rest of Europe to race ahead. It's a good example of bad economics, because Spain was the country everybody was trying to emulate: mercantilist theory said that a country should aim to accumulate bullion. Spain had the most bullion - but it suffered as a result.

---

I would ask: why do your countries have bimetallic currencies in the first place?


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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 00:57 
roman
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They dont, yet. I havent decieded what to take as I am still exploring what economic system to use and make it realistic for a 1900 world with huge distances and more.

But thank you for all the valueble info. It gives me alot to htink about =) I mgiht keep in contact just to get this problem solved

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 01:16 
sinic
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Bimetallism (that is, if you're not clear, allowing two different metals as legal tender simultaneously, with a fixed exchange rate between them) was largely, probably entirely, extinct by 1900.


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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 01:36 
cleardarkness
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Salmoneus wrote:
For instance, Spain fell from global dominence in part because it controlled the world's silver supply. Spain was part of the silver standard, along with most of the world, but had a lot more silver than anybody else. As there was more silver (ie money) in Spain than in, for example, Germany, there was higher inflation in Spain - more money available means higher prices, so prices were higher in Spain where the silver was and lower in Germany where there was less silver. This meant that Spaniards bought German goods, because German goods were cheaper - goods flowed into Spain from the rest of Europe, and silver flowed out of Spain into Europe. As there was a constant supply of new silver from the New World mines, Spain was constantly importing. This made it theoretically "richer", because, as everybody could see, they had oodles of cash, and bought lots of nice things for themselves. In the long run, however, it meant that, for centuries, Spanish industry could not compete. This increased unemployment, and discouraged investment, making the economy weaker, and allowing the rest of Europe to race ahead. It's a good example of bad economics, because Spain was the country everybody was trying to emulate: mercantilist theory said that a country should aim to accumulate bullion. Spain had the most bullion - but it suffered as a result.


Imports do not weaken an economy.

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 03:03 
sinic
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Spoken like a good neoliberal. But it's plainly false. Imports do weaken an economy, pro tanto, because they crowd out domestic supply. The neoliberal theory is that if those imports contribute to a restructuring of global production along the lines of comparative advantages (and/or technological progress, or theoretically an increase in social or human capital, I guess, though that part's not mentioned much), the global production increase will outweigh the local reversal.

However, in the case of Spain, the neoliberal reasoning does not apply, for several reasons:
a) transport costs were relatively high, meaning that even an allocation of labour more in line with comparative advantage could still be unproductive - and countries could not simply maximise their profits by pursuing comparative advantage, because they could remain at an absolute disadvantage (the higher the transport costs, the less Ricardo's theories apply). So neither the global gain from restructuring nor the ability of the country to restructure its own industry apply in the way that your theory demands;
b) the neoliberal theory assumes that trade deficits are inherently short-term, because they cannot be sustained long-term because the country would run out of money; in the case of Spain, however, the supply of money was for all meaningful purposes infinite in extent (if not in volume produced per year);
c) the neoliberal theory assumes that trade deficits are self-limiting, because a large imbalance will lead to an adjustment in the exchange rate; however, Spain was on the silver standard, which is to say that the exchange rate was fixed and could not be changed. As a result, imports did not lower the value of the currency, lowering imports, as Friedman points out that they should with floating exchange rates;
d) Spain was not, technologically or socially, modern. This is important because it meant it could not substitute in the way a modern country can. When America imports, and its domestic industries suffer, that's OK, because American labour can instead be invested in, say, service industries, or in high-tech industries. Spain had no high-tech industries, and very limited service industries. Therefore, its excess labour force remained trapped in agriculture - a sector with very low productivity gains to be made. As a result, there was little domestic investment, and as a result the economy did not grow.

------

Let's summarise that by comparing America with Spain. America shows us what should happen:

- America imports. Americans have more stuff more cheaply, and thus have more excess money.
- Americans spend that money not only on buying more stuff from abroad, but also on buying stuff that cannot be got from abroad: haircuts, complicated financial products, massages, supercomputers, and so on.
- Americans lose jobs in manufacturing, but gain jobs in massage parlours, banks, and computer labs.
- American investors see that these sectors can grow, and so invest in them. This encourages a healthy level of financial trade, that oils the machinery of production.
- Because America is now doing what America does best, and Outland is doing what Outland does best, global production increases, or prices decrease, so more people can get more stuff for the same price, including Americans.
- If America now does what it does best, it will actually make more money for itself thanks to comparative advantage.
- If deficits look like getting too big (ie if the above isn't enough to make up for the loss of manufacturing jobs), that's OK - that'll just force down the value of the dollar, which'll make it more expensive to import into the US (or less expensive to export from the US), so the deficit will remain at a manageable level.
Look, imports don't hurt the economy!

But then let's look at Spain:
- Spain imports. Spaniards can get more stuff more cheaply and thus have more money.
- Spaniards spend that extra money on... well, they don't, they just turn their silver into silverware and keep it locked up. Why? Because they'd love to spend their money on supercomputers, but they don't exist yet. And there isn't all that much call for masseurs, because, for a start, only a tiny, tiny fraction of the population lives within ten miles of a viable massage parlour site. With very small cities (towns, by modern standards), most service industries are not viable (even if they are technologically and educationally possible in the first place).
- Spaniards lose jobs in manufacturing. In fact, a lot of them lose jobs in agriculture. Or they don't, because they're mostly de facto serfs with limited mobility but strong family ties, so they remain on the family farm, but they can no longer sell their crops at a price that enables them all to survive (because foreign grain is so much cheaper).
- Spanish entrepeneurs do not invest in the new industries because there aren't any. They may perhaps invest abroad. More likely these 'entrepeneurs' (ie local gentry) just hoard their silver as silverware, because there's nothing else that offers a comparable rate of return.
- Because the trade imbalance is not created by underlying production costs but simply the accidental location of a massive silver mine, Spain is not necessarily doing what it does best, and nor is the rest of the world, so global production is not necessarily increasing (indeed, if more money is being lost to the 'friction' of transport costs, production may actually be decreasing), so the world isn't getting richer.
- Because high transport costs get in the way of comparative advantage, Spain can't just do what it does best (even if it had an economy that was fast enough to respond, despite lack of modern communication speeds and a highly decentralised economic system).
- Deficits can keep getting bigger and bigger, as foreign industry (and agriculture) get invested in more and more, driving down foreign production costs, while domestic inflation pushes domestic production costs up. This should produce currency revaluation, but since Spain's currency is pegged to silver, and so is everyone else's, Spain is essentially using the same currency as everybody else, and cannot revalue, so the problem cannot go away.
- Finally, if devaluation is impossible, deflation should occur, which would make the Spanish economy more competitive. However, deflation cannot occur, because more and more money is being created.

------

At least, that's what I remember being taught.

Can you explain why "imports do not weaken an economy" is true in a way that does not rely on free exchange rates, low transport costs, finite money supplies, and a workforce that can be easily reconfigured into industries that did not exist in the time-frame in question?


-------

[Basically, Spain was an anti-Iceland. You know how you can't get inflation and deflation together? Well Iceland got them both. That was because the financial system collapsed (ie no investment, ie deflation), but at the same time the exchange rate forced the cost of imports up (inflation). With floating exchange rates, a sufficiently large shock to domestic demand, causing a lack of domestic investment, co-existed with inflation driven by the high cost of imports. Well, Spain had the opposite: with fixed exchange rates, a sufficiently large inflationary surge in domestic demand caused a lack of domestic investment driven by the low cost of imports. A lot of what we generally assume about economics is based on operating within certain parameters - Iceland violated those paremeters by having an unexpectedly large systemic financial failure, while Spain violated them by having an unprecedently large financial windfall coupled with fixed exchange rates and a rigid economy]


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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 07:17 
cleardarkness
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The problem arises because you're working in a demand-driven model. Where do you think supercomputers and massage parlours came from in the first place?

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 11:33 
roman
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Quick question, if markets are weeks/months apart, how severe can such issues as money transfer be then?

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 13:03 
sinic
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Micamo wrote:
The problem arises because you're working in a demand-driven model. Where do you think supercomputers and massage parlours came from in the first place?


...I think they came from investment, which is what you don't have if you're Spain. They don't just pop into existence out of nowhere. The supply is constrained by the circumstances (ie it's premodern and non-urbanised, so things made possible by modernity and urbanisation are not possible).

Your comment makes no sense at all, and you refuse to actually engage substantively. I assume your cryptic, undefended one-liners are just a strange form of trolling? If not, feel free to offer some justification for your view.

--------

I should make clear to the audience that my view is the standard one. Here, for instance, is The Straight Dope:
Quote:
...Among other things the higher prices meant Spanish goods became uncompetitive on European markets. Even the Spanish themselves began buying foreign products, resulting in a lot of cash leaving the country. In addition, inflation stifled local investment, with the grandees spending their dough on conspicuous consumables instead.

For the latter part of the 1500s and on into the 1600s Spain was a debtor nation, spending more abroad than it took in. The result was a net outflow of gold and silver. Attempts were made to restrict the export of precious metals, but without much success. In the end it all simply dribbled away. The problem was that the conquest of the New World left Spain with a lot more money, but not that much more wealth, if you follow me. They didn't realize that until too late, and suffered centuries of poverty as a consequence.


This traditional theory, dating back to Adam Smith, has since been questioned - but the questions are all about whether New World silver was the main reason for the inflation (versus, say, coinage debasement), and even whether the inflation existed (or rather, whether Spain really had higher inflation than the rest of Europe). I don't think the basic idea (inflation leads to imports, lead to stagnation of local production) has been challenged.

Cue trite one-liner...


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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan 2012, 15:04 
runic
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Salmoneus wrote:
Your comment makes no sense at all, and you refuse to actually engage substantively. I assume your cryptic, undefended one-liners are just a strange form of trolling?

Salmoneus wrote:
Cue trite one-liner...

Now, I'm no mod', but I think I'll preëmpt them and refer you to the rules...

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I am creating a conworld, which I refer to as the Carrion Series, that will contain three languages, Iriex, Dvoen and Maxna.


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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Sun 15 Jan 2012, 14:24 
roman
roman

Joined: Sat 06 Nov 2010, 09:04
Posts: 660
Bimetallism had its issues as established but I am curious, trimetallism would probably make it even worse am I right?

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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Wed 09 May 2012, 21:58 
rupestrian
rupestrian

Joined: Wed 09 May 2012, 21:19
Posts: 2
As for bimetallism, there's a good deal of research that suggests it play a positive role in keeping prices reasonable. If one metal inflates or deflates, the other serves as an automatic stabilizer of sorts.

And yet, something to consider - in my opinion, there's no need to limit yourself to gold and silver. For a currency to work it needs just four things: it must be storable, portable, recognizable, and (ideally) divisible. While most economies in the world used gold and silver, countless other currencies have been used throughout history, such as cowrie shells, ivory, and ingots.

And while it's so well explored it borders on the cliche, the island of Yap had a fascinating currency called Rai Stones, big slabs of limestone that were carried away from neighboring Palau on canoes (often at great risk). The slabs were stored in one's house, and partially transferred through small scratchings.

Furthermore, some rather advanced civilizations had no currencies at all. The Incan civilization functioned purely on command - to buy goods, workers were given "worker credits".

I think a conworld based on worker credits or Rai Stones would be much more interesting than one based on gold and silver.


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 Post subject: Re: Conworld Economy
PostPosted: Wed 09 May 2012, 22:09 
fire
fire

Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2010, 19:38
Posts: 2794
In "India extra Gangem", that is, southeastern Asia east of India, wasn't there a civilization for a while whose currency was rice?
I think it was the same one that built Angkor Wat -- wasn't it?

Would "bicerealism" be a possibility?

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