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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan 2012, 21:58 
cleardarkness
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Trailsend wrote:
Micamo wrote:
You just rev up your motorcycle and try to hit the logic ramp as fast as possible (invariably missing completely, in spectacular fashion)

Fixed :)


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan 2012, 22:38 
shadowlight
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Awesome thread, bro.


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Wed 18 Jan 2012, 23:52 
moderator
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Apparently, Zomp has made a blog post concerning the situation, and it does seem like the situation is only temporary. He isn't saying how long it will take to fix things, though. But considering that he's providing this service completely free of charge and for no discernible personal gain, I really find some people's chutzpah in whining about him not doing stuff fast enough difficult to comprehend.

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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 00:15 
sinic
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Xonen wrote:
Apparently, Zomp has made a blog post concerning the situation, and it does seem like the situation is only temporary. He isn't saying how long it will take to fix things, though. But considering that he's providing this service completely free of charge and for no discernible personal gain, I really find some people's chutzpah in whining about him not doing stuff fast enough difficult to comprehend.


I think the issue was not so much not doing things fast enough, but not seemingly being interested in doing anything at all. The lack of communication led some people to think the worst, and quite understandably, past events considered.


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 00:18 
sinic
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The blog post Xonen links to does, as advertised, largely repeat what was said on the board. In the interests of completeness, and because I think the board version paints him in a more sympathetic light due to the additional personal disclosures, I'm repeating his latest post on the board:

Quote:
Back in September, spinnwebe got hacked. Another attack came up in November, though apparently limited to the ZBB, and this was repeated this month.

spinn addressed the first two problems, and I removed the immediate source of the latest attack (in .htaccess). However, the infection must go deeper-- the .htacess file isn't going to hack itself. I'm no security expert and have no experience in fixing such things, nor am I the webmaster here-- spinn is. I can't force spinn to deal with something that is, after all, an annoying interruption to him.

I'd hoped people would be patient about the situation and understand that it's frustrating for all of us. Sadly that isn't the case; some of you have decided that rude demands are the way to go.

This situation, as well as the problems at Almeopedia (also due to hacking), lead me to think that the board can only be satisfactorily run from a website under my own control. Then at least I can start from a hack-free state and have the tools to deal with problems as they come up.

This doesn't really come at a good time-- my parents are in the hospital and I don't really have the income for anything expensive. So, yes, I'm testy when people get bitchy about the free service that doesn't have the fucking avatars where they want them.

It will take some time to set things up. When there's news, I'll post it.

The site seems to work on some browsers, but again this is not a sign that the site is OK; something keeps infecting it. Given that, it seems better to keep the board closed.


--

In the interests of openness, I'll also reprint my reply to him:
Quote:
Thank you for updating us.

You may or may not be aware that the board is apparently entirely unviewable for everybody except moderators. That being the case, I hope you won't mind me reposting this at the CBB, where people can see it.

As for my own views, I can only re-iterate that I think your actions (flaming, banning, board-closing) were both impolite and disproportionate, and that in particular the policy of collective punishment of the community for the perceived misdeads of the few is greatly troubling.

My sympathies for the situation with your parents, truly. I'm sure we can all sympathise with that, and I hope that community members will take your situation into consideration when deciding whether or not to return. I'm sure you are probably aware of how understandably furious and disappointed many people are at the moment - it is one thing, I think many people feel, to gracefully relinquish thankless responsibilities for which you have volunteered, to no benefit of your own, but it's another to abandon those responsibilities without warning or explanation or obvious reasonable cause, in a way that appears vindictive. Hopefully, most will give the board a second chance.

If you really intend to resurrect the board at some point in the future, I recommend taking two basic steps:
1. redirect the board's address to a holding page that explains that the board is experiencing technical difficulties but that it will return
2. ask spinn to e-mail google to take the address off their blacklist, so that people (particularly any potential newcomers, and those who don't yet know about the places they might go to find other information - apparently there are still quite a few who haven't dared visit the board since the warning came up) aren't scared off permanently, and will consider checking back in the future.

I think these two steps would greatly add to the clarity of the situation and would improve the odds of the forums returning swiftly to health after the reboot.

Regarding the financial situation, you might take the opportunity to discuss options with the community. Perhaps somebody else might have the money, time, and/or expertise to run the forums, or to co-run the forums with you, or to provide more active and secure hosting for the forums. Perhaps a whip-around could be held to help support the financial burden of the forums - I know that sort of thing has worked in other places. Even if things remain as they are, I think that maybe that sort of discussion could make everybody feel better about things - us, because we would feel consulted, involved, kept in the loop, and perhaps you, because it might make you feel less isolated as admin, more supported. Talking about problems is good!

Once again, thank you sincerely for starting to communicate with us again, and my best wishes with your personal and financial situations.


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 00:19 
sinic
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If I might, I'd also suggest that perhaps somebody who is a member of the conlang list might post a link to this thread, or some other precis of the situation? I know that not everybody visits the CBB.


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 00:34 
rupestrian
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OK, here: http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi- ... ang&P=8639

I think your reply sums things up well and in a factual manner, Sal.

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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 00:57 
MVP
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The infection doesn't actually go as deep as Zompist is implying in his statement. Rather, a simple flaw in a piece of software installed somewhere on Spinn's server is being exploited by an automated script. This is supported by the fact that the same redirectional exploit has been used on other websites, and a direct correlation between the previous attack and the current one has been noted. Sucuri.net, a malware research company which I had previously linked, supports this view.

Since we don't know the exact point of origin of the issue, the solution against this would be simply to update all current software installed on the server itself, and update the server's internal setup as well. This would ensure that any exploits due to outdated things would be resolved. Assuming the script has been uploaded onto the server, either Zompist or Spinn would have to do a thorough search for any suspicious files and folders and have them removed entirely. (Since the ZBB forum is nothing more than that, you could remove everything except the database and reinstall the current PhpBB software)

Anyhow, if Zompist chooses to move the site to an independent host in order to have more control over things, then that would probably be ideal for him and I wish him all the best. I do, however, find his response to other people's worries and concerns over the website a little overboard - regardless of what supposedly went on behind the scenes. And I know avatars seem like a minor thing to him, but it's a visible hindrance to those of us who actively use the boards, and it was also a ten second fix that even he had the power to change months ago.


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 01:02 
rupestrian
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Hakaku wrote:
but it's a visible hindrance to those of us who actively use the boards

You can just disable them in your board settings for the time being. But yes, I guess not fixing this minor thing for so long may have led to the impression that neither Zomp nor Spinn really care about board issues for some, including myself.

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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 03:59 
earth
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Guitarplayer wrote:
Hakaku wrote:
but it's a visible hindrance to those of us who actively use the boards

You can just disable them in your board settings for the time being. But yes, I guess not fixing this minor thing for so long may have led to the impression that neither Zomp nor Spinn really care about board issues for some, including myself.

Especially considering that the fix is literally one checkbox, to allow avatars hosted offsite. Which would also solve the bandwidth problem that IIRC was raised wrt avatars a while before they got broken.


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 04:42 
roman
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This sucks but I think a fresh start is necessary. And some cool-down time.

I miss posting already... It's a ZBBdiction. :(

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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 07:22 
rupestrian
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Nortaneous wrote:
Guitarplayer wrote:
Hakaku wrote:
but it's a visible hindrance to those of us who actively use the boards

You can just disable them in your board settings for the time being. But yes, I guess not fixing this minor thing for so long may have led to the impression that neither Zomp nor Spinn really care about board issues for some, including myself.

Especially considering that the fix is literally one checkbox, to allow avatars hosted offsite. Which would also solve the bandwidth problem that IIRC was raised wrt avatars a while before they got broken.


Actually, when the avatars originally got broken, someone figured out exactly why they were broken, tested their theory and confirmed it, and posted exact instructions on how zompist or spinn could fix it in the thread about how avatars were broken. Later, spinn posted asking for this post (as he'd apparently been informed of it by someone else), and I quoted it for him. That was ages ago, and avatars still haven't been fixed, and there has been no information on whether the fix had been attempted, or if something else was broken, or what. (ETA: In fact, now that I think about it, it was probably Hakaku who posted the fix.)

And I was just going to get off my ass and post about a little conmyth program I wanted to test out. Ah well. Maybe if the ZBB is still down when I finish touching it up, I can post it here.


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 12:22 
rupestrian
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Jar Jar Binks found out what the exact problem is, I think.

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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 17:46 
cleardarkness
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faiuwle wrote:
And I was just going to get off my ass and post about a little conmyth program I wanted to test out. Ah well. Maybe if the ZBB is still down when I finish touching it up, I can post it here.


Conmyth program? Like a sort of random creation myth generator? How does that work?

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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 20:25 
rupestrian
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The idea was that you make an index of the conmyth motifs of your conculture like the Aarne-Thompson index, and the program will randomly choose a number of motifs according to various specifications and tunings and the tree structure. I did actually have an idea for a procedural myth generator based on this kind of idea, but this would be more like an aide for writing myths.


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 20:41 
rupestrian
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That list on Wikipedia reads much like TV Tropes for fairytales [:D] Also, I guess you could do random draws from TV Tropes regarding character traits and plot/plot devices?

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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 20:50 
cleardarkness
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faiuwle wrote:
The idea was that you make an index of the conmyth motifs of your conculture like the Aarne-Thompson index, and the program will randomly choose a number of motifs according to various specifications and tunings and the tree structure. I did actually have an idea for a procedural myth generator based on this kind of idea, but this would be more like an aide for writing myths.


I see. Sounds interesting enough; What sorts of specifications can be set?

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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 21:03 
light
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What happened to the ZBB?


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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 21:04 
shadowlight
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Read the whole thread, Visinoid.

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 Post subject: Re: News about the ZBB.
PostPosted: Thu 19 Jan 2012, 23:19 
rupestrian
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Guitarplayer wrote:
That list on Wikipedia reads much like TV Tropes for fairytales [:D] Also, I guess you could do random draws from TV Tropes regarding character traits and plot/plot devices?


TV tropes is not nearly as painstakingly organized, though. This isn't based so much on the type index as on the motif index, which breaks the types down into individual story components and is incredibly massive. It's also not specific to any particular culture, or anything.

Micamo wrote:
I see. Sounds interesting enough; What sorts of specifications can be set?


Mainly adjustments for random weighting, exclusivity, story weight, etc.


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