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I was reading this thing, that I found on that other board.

It urged me to ask the question, how does your English dialects handle foreign borrowings containing <a>?

When it comes to recent borrowings, the choice seems to be between the [æ]-like vowel in words like cat, trap, map etc., and the [ɑ]-like vowel in word like father (and, for many Americans, also words like hot, not, cot, bother, etc.) The diphthong /eɪ̯/ (or something similar thereto) seems to be restricted to old, long-since established loanwords (like the American pronunciation of <tomato>).

It's also possible - which the article argues for - that the loanwords takes neither the <father>-vowel or the <trap>-vowel, but something in between, something [a]-like.

So, how do your English dialects handle the (stressed) <a> in words like:

pasta
lasagna
taco
llama
lava
drama
plaza
Iran
Iraq
NN-istan
kebab
salsa
mafia
latte
soprano
Slavic
Slovak
banana
pyjamas
(Any other loanword with <a> you can think of??)

EDIT: I should add pecan, which seems to have a bunch of different pronunciations.

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constructedlanguages.net

pasta /'pʰɑstə/
lasagna /lə'zɑɲə/
taco /'tʰɑko/
llama /'lɑmə/
lava /'lɑvə/
drama /'dɹɑmə ~ 'ʤɹɑmə/
plaza /'pʰlæzə/
Iran /ɪ'ɹɑn ~ ɑi'ɹæn/
Iraq /ɪ'ɹɑkʰ ~ ɑi'ɹækʰ/
NN-istan /n:.ɪ'stæn/
kebab /kʰə'bɑb/
salsa /'sɔɫsə/
mafia /'mɑfi:.ə/
latte /lɑ'tʰe/
soprano /sə'pɹæno/
Slavic /'slɑvɨk̚/
Slovak /'slovɑk̚/
banana /bə'nænə/
pyjamas /pʰə'ʤæməz/

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Dotjen
Kotanese

My pronounciation almost perfectly mimics Thak's.

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Banami bhjaddhos rafi mau cy vyaja cecerror.
Fools do not see the sun nor sail the seas
-Azenti Proverb

pasta [ˈpʰɐs.tʰə]
lasagna [lə.ˈzɐ.njə]
taco [ˈtʰɐ.kʰoʊ̯]
llama [ˈlɐ.mɐ]
lava [ˈlɐ.vɐ]
drama [ˈdʰɹɐ.mɐ]
plaza [ˈpʰlɐ.zɐ]
Iran [ɪ.ˈɻɐn]
Iraq [ɪ.ˈɻɐk]
NN-istan [-ɪ.ˈstʰɐn]
kebab [kʰə.ˈbʰɐb]
salsa [ˈsɐl.sə]
mafia [ˈmɐ.fiə̯]
latte [ˈlɐ.tʰeɪ̯]
soprano [sʌ.ˈpʰɻɐ.nou̯]
Slavic [ˈslɐ.vɪk]
Slovak [ˈsloʊ̯.vɐk]
banana [bə.ˈnɐ.nə]
pyjamas [pʰə.ˈdʒ̯ɐ.məz]

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I speak English and a touch of Gàidhlig.
I am creating a conworld, which I refer to as the Carrion Series, that will contain three languages, Iriex, Dvoen and Maxna.

Thakow's pronunciations is roughly what I expected to be typical US pronunciations.



Could /ɪˈɹæn and /ɪˈɹækʰ/ be viable options?

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What factors do you think could be involved in the choice between /æ/ and /ɑ/ in different -lects?

One factor that's often been mentioned is the different phonetic qualities of /æ/ and /ɑ/ in different dialects. This website mentions that as a possible explanation for the differences between Canadian and US English in this respect. Many US dialects have a raised or tensed /æ/. In some dialects it may be the case in all environments. In others, it may be conditioned, and in yet others, it has led to a phonemic split. Correspondingly, many US dialect have an /ɑ/ that is shorter and slightly more advanced than in f.ex. British English. These factors may work together to make /ɑ/ the most suitable match for the 'foreign a'.

Conversely, other English dialects may have an /æ/ that are phonetically more open, more like [a], or at least close thereto. This may be the case in many British dialects, for many Canadians, and even for some dialects in the US.

If there is a variation in your dialect, is one pronunciation regarded as more 'correct', or as having higher prestige, than the other? I Think I've heard people claiming that this could be the case in the US - that people think that '/æ/ for <a> is an Englishy pronunciation, avoid it in foreign words'.

Does the presence or absence of BATH-broadening affect the pronunciation of foreign a's? It could be the case, that if a dialect has a larger amount of native words (which may include older, established borrowings) where <a> = [ɑ(ː)], this pronunciation does not have the same 'foreign' flavour as it has in a dialect without BATH-broadening?

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constructedlanguages.net

Well, it'd probably be easier to separate the list into the ones for which I have [ɑ] and the ones I have [æ] for <a>.
<a> realized as [ɑ~ɒ]
pasta
lasagna
taco
llama
lava
drama
plaza
salsa
mafia
latte
soprano
Slavic
Slovak
pyjamas

<a> realized as [æ]
Iran
Iraq
NN-istan
kebab (but, in German, it's closer to [a] for me... though, normally, I just say Döner)
banana

And, yes, I am from the US and a native English speaker.

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And I'll dance with you in Vienna,
I'll be wearing a river's disguise;
The hyacinth wild on my shoulder,
My mouth on the dew of your thigh...

Looking for subjects to appear on banknotes. Inquire within.

North-East England, probably closest to Geordie.

pasta /'pʰæstɛ/
lasagna /lə'zɑnjɛ/
taco /'tʰæko/
llama /'lɑmɛ/
lava /'lɑvɛ/
drama /'drɑmɛ/
plaza /'pʰlɑzɛ/
Iran /ɪ'ræn/
Iraq /ɪ'rækʰ/
NN-istan /n'n.ɪstæn/
kebab /kʰə'bæb/
salsa /'sælsɛ/
mafia /'mæfiɛ/
latte /'lætʰe/
soprano /sə'prɑno/
Slavic /'slævɨk/
Slovak /'slovæk/
banana /bə'nɑnɛ/
pyjamas /pʰə'ʤɑmɛz/

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Valar morghulis.

Zidhgebzhail Orthography

pasta æ
lasagna ɑ
taco ɑ
llama ɑ
lava ɑ
drama ɑ
plaza ɑ
Iran æ
Iraq æ
NN-istan æ
kebab ɑ
salsa ɑ
mafia ɑ
latte ɑ
soprano æ
Slavic ɑ
Slovak ɑ
banana æ
pyjamas æ ~ ɑ
pecan ɑ

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Up in blue sky silly blimp goes by
Where it come from where it go
Ziggy-Zaggy it fly high

Does anyone know what the 'typical' patterns in southern hemisphere (AUS/NZ/SA) English are?

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constructedlanguages.net

By SA you mean South African, right?
Are there any other English-speaking sub-Equatorial African countries? I think there are; what about them (if there are)?
What about South America, and the islands in the Southern Pacific, S. Atlantic, and S. Indian Oceans?

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I am not responsible for the accuracy of my sources; they're responsible for their own mistakes, if any, and also responsible for defending their own statements if you disagree with them.

Yes.

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constructedlanguages.net

Eastern end of Long Island, Southampton to be specific.

<pasta> - [ˈpʰɑstə]
<lasagna> - [ləˈzɑɲə]
<taco> - [ˈtʰɑkəʊ̯]
<llama> - [ˈlɑmə]
<lava> - [ˈlɑvə]
<drama> - [ˈd͡ʒɹɑmə]
<plaza> - [ˈplɑzə]
<Iran> - [ɨɻ.ˈɑn] / [aɪ̯.ˈɹæn]
<Iraq> - [ɨɻ.ˈɑk] / [aɪ̯.ˈɹæk]
<-istan> - [ɨˌstan] / [ɨˌstæn]
<kebab> - [kəˈbɑb]
<salsa> - [ˈsɑɫsə]
<mafia> - [ˈmɑfi.ə]
<latte> - [ˈlɑteɪ̯]
<soprano> – [səˈpɻɑnəʊ̯] / [səˈpɹænəʊ̯]
<Slavic> - [ˈslavɨk] / [ˈslɑvɨk]
<Slovak> - [ˈslovak] / *
<banana> - [bəˈnænə]
<pyjamas> – [pʰəd͡ʒɑməz]

Two separate transcriptions for a word represent areas where there is a significant difference in vowel qualities between my own idiolect and the local dialect.
* I'm not sure what the local pronunciation of <Slovak> would be and where it would differ from my idiolect, since I haven't heard anyone say that particular word. I'd wager [ˈsləʊ̯væk] as a first guess, though.

I guess your idiolectal pronunciations are the first ones mentioned, right?

Any ideas about where your idiolect could hail from? Did you or your family originally come from somewhere else, or did you acquire your "idiosyncrasies" from somewhere else (media, education, etc.)?

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constructedlanguages.net

Yes.



I probably acquired those differences due to some combination of education, media, and in general having been raised without much of the more extensive contact that might have moved my idiolect closer to the norm. It's also possible my parents had something to do with it--my mother lived in Seattle for a significant portion of her life, and my father was born in the northern part of New Jersey--but I'm not sure about any specifics.

<pasta> - æ
<lasagna> - æ
<taco> - æ
<llama> - ɑ
<lava> - ɑ
<drama> - ɑ
<plaza> - ɑ
<Iran> - ɑ
<Iraq> - ɑ
<-istan> - ɑ
<kebab> - æ
<salsa> - æ
<mafia> - æ
<latte> - ɑ
<soprano> - ɑ
<Slavic> - ɑ
<Slovak> - æ
<banana> - ɑ
<pyjamas> - ɑ

Sussex, UK

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South-east England

pasta ['pʰæstə]
lasagna [lə'zɑːnjə]
taco ['tʰækəʊ̯]
llama ['lɑːmə]
lava ['lɑːvə]
drama ['drɑːmə]
plaza ['pʰlɑːzə]
Iran [ɨ'rɑːn]
Iraq [ɨ'rɑːk]
-istan [ɨˌstɑːn]
kebab [kʰə'bæb]
salsa ['sælsə]
mafia ['mæfi.ə]
latte ['lɑːtʰeɪ̯]
soprano [sə'prɑːnəʊ̯]
Slavic ['slævɨk]
Slovak ['sləʊ̯væk]
banana [bə'nɑːnə]
pyjamas [pʰə'ʤɑːməz]

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pasta ['pʰastɛ]
lasagna [lə'zaːnjɛ]
taco ['tʰaxɛʉ]
llama ['lɑːmɛ]
lava ['lɑːvɛ]
drama ['drɑːmɛ]
plaza ['pʰlɑːzɛ]
Iran [ɪ'ɾaːn]
Iraq [ɪ'ɾaːkx]
-istan [ɪˌstan]
kebab [kʰə'bab]
salsa ['salsɛ]
mafia ['mafi.ɛ]
latte ['latʰeɪ]
soprano [sə'pɾɑːnɛʉ]
Slavic ['slɑːvɪx]
Slovak ['slɛʉvakx]
banana [bə'nɑːnɛ]
pyjamas [pʰə'ʤɑːməz]

Liverpool English.

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/A/ in all but 'plaza', 'Iraq', '-istan', 'soprano', and 'banana', where I have /{/.

pasta [ˈpastə]
lasagna [ləˈzaɲə]
taco ['takoː]
llama [ˈlaːmə]
lava [ˈlɑvə]
drama ['dɹɑːmə]
plaza [ˈplɑːzə]
Iran [ɪˈɾan]
Iraq [ɪˈɾak]
-istan [ɪsˈtan]
kebab [kəˈbab]
salsa [ˈsalsə]
mafia [ˈmafiə]
latte ['lateː]
soprano [səˈprɑno]
Slavic [ˈslɑːvɪk]
Slovak [ˈsloːvak]
banana [bəˈnɑːnə]
pyjamas [pɪˈdʒɑːməz]

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I've generally got [ɑ] when it's in an open syllable (llama, lava, pyjamas etc.), and [æ] when its in a closed syllable (pasta, lasagna (with [n.j] for the <gn>, Slovak, kebab etc.)

The exceptions are Iraq, Iran and -istan, which have [ɑ], and taco, latte and mafia, which have [æ].

(I speak (mostly) Southern British English.)

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