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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 03:36 
wood
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Eschatologist wrote:

I'm not sure these will be absolutely correct, but here's a try based on what I do know:

Spoiler: show
  • takuatsigut
  • allaffaanga
  • tunivaasi
  • puigorpaa
  • iliffai


Close! Remember these two rules:
Quote:
(2) If the affix appears after a consonant, V is realized as <p> /p/.
(3) Whenever C1 is followed by C2 and is not /q/, C1 completely assimilates to C2, geminating C2.

This means that you should come out with <pp> /p:/ in your second and fifth answers. You also did the wrong persons for some of them (possibly due to column-row confusion? Reading Greenlandic tables always screws me over [:)] ).
Here are the correct answers:
Spoiler: show
takuatsigit
allappaga
tunivasi
puigorpaa
ilippaat


rickardspaghetti wrote:
Here're my answers.

Spoiler: show
takuatsigit
allappaga
tunivatit
puigorpaa
ilippaat


Hope they're correct.

Technically they're all correct; I should have specified that I wanted a singular second person and not a plural one. Answer three with the second person singular would be
Spoiler: show
tunivasi
.

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 04:40 
wood
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Lesson Three: Babby's First Derivational Postbases!

Ilinniannguarpitigooq? :3 Hehe.

Now that we're all experts on the positive indicative mood, we can move on to the even more interesting stuff.

In this three-part lesson, I'm going to introduce you to three commonly-used verbal derivational postbases (your first!). Incidentally, all three of them involve noun-incorporation, which is as easy as pie. Ingerlallat! "Let's go!"

Section One: qaq "have, exist"

The ways in which the possessive verb manifests (if at all) in different languages is very varied. Fortunately for English speakers, Greenlandic's way of doing it is pretty similar. So, what does it exactly mean and how does it work?

Well, one way of thinking about it is that qaq has one meaning, "have". It can be used not only for sentences like "I have a cat" and such, but for sentences like "There are people on the street", or "The street has people". Let's take a look at the Greenlandic translations:

pussi "cat" + qaq + Vunga = pusseqarpunga "I have a cat"
aqqusinneq "street" inuk "person" +qaq + Vuq = Aqqusinneq inoqarpoq. "There are people on the street." "The street has people."

You can make several observations about qaq now:

(1) Possessed nouns are incorporated into the verb, and qaq is stuck on right after them.
(2) qaq attaches to the vocalic form of incorporated nouns (inuk + qaq is essentially inuk - k + qaq).
(3) Plurality is not expressed in incorporated nouns (that's part of what makes them incorporated linguistically anyway).
(4) Verbs with qaq are always intransitive. No need for personal agreement here!

Also one observation about sentence structure:

(1) Verbs like to go after subjects. In fact, Greenlandic is mainly an SOV language. But since that has nothing to do with qaq, I'll talk about syntax later.

Anyway, if you're familiar with the Japanese verb of existence いる or its Korean counterpart 이다, you can be sure there is little to no difference between their and qaq.

Two more things. First, what to do if you just want to say "There is/are [an] X[s]?" without a specific location like aqqusinneq? Simple; just use the third person without any subject.

Second, unlike the Japanese and Korean verbs, qaq can be used to state the cost of something by incorporating kruuni "krone" (since, you know, Greenland uses Danish kroner) into the verb with the number of kroner right before the verb. For example:

Ataatseq kruuneqarpoq. "It costs one krone."
Qulit kruuneqarpoq. "It costs ten kroner."

I'll teach numbers later.

Now, here's a list of more nouns in addition to those already mentioned:
illu "house"
qimmeq "dog"
imeq "water"
qamat "sled"
qajaq "kayak"
atuagaq "book"
kuuk "river"

Now, have some practice with qaq. Translate these sentences:
"Thou hast a house."
"There is a kayak in the river."
"We have water."
"You (pl.) have a sled."
"There are dogs."
"He has a book."
"There is a dog in the house."
"There is water in the river."
"There are people in the house."

Check your answers here:
Spoiler: show
Illoqarputit.
Kuuk qajaqarpoq.
Imeqarpugut.
Qamaqarpusi.
Atuargaqarpoq.
Illu qimmeqarpoq.
Kuuk imeqarpoq.
Illu inoqarpoq.

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Last edited by Pirka on Tue 01 May 2012, 10:31, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 08:50 
ice
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Last two lessons. Had to give them a try, and I think I spotted an error from you, in one of your tables (it's in the first spoiler box):

Spoiler: show
takutsigit
allappaga (not -ra? :S)
tunivasi
puiguppaa
ilippat


Spoiler: show
illoqarputit
kuuk qajaqarpoq
imeqarpugut
qamaqarpusi
qimmeqarput
atuagaqarpoq
illu qimmeqarpoq
kuuk imeqarpoq
illu inoqarpoq

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‹› · Ḿḿ Ńń Ĺĺ Śś Źź Ąą Ǫǫ Ųų Æ̨æ̨ Ǽǽ Œ̨œ̨ Œ́œ́ Ɣɣ Y̋y̋ Įį Şş Z̧z̧ θ
Āā Ēē Īī Ōō Ūū ↗ Ṭṭ C̣c̣ Łł Ḍḍ Ṣṣ Ẓẓ Ṇṇ Ŋŋ e˞ o˞ ʷ ʲ ʰ ə


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 09:48 
wood
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Skógvur wrote:
Last two lessons. Had to give them a try, and I think I spotted an error from you, in one of your tables (it's in the first spoiler box):

Spoiler: show
takutsigit
allappaga (not -ra? :S)
tunivasi
puiguppaa
ilippat


Two mistakes: *puiguppaa. The root is puiguq which means that the correct form is puigorpaa.
ilippat. The t ending is the second person subject-third person object one. The correct ending for this translation is at, making the correct form ilippaat. (Making the agreement table clearer as per request.)

Yes, you are correct: it should be -ra. My bad.

EVERYONE! LOOK AT THIS! THE CORRECT 1s-3so INFLECTION IS NOT Vaga BUT Vara!

Skógvur wrote:
Spoiler: show
illoqarputit
kuuk qajaqarpoq
imeqarpugut
qamaqarpusi
qimmeqarput
atuagaqarpoq
illu qimmeqarpoq
kuuk imeqarpoq
illu inoqarpoq


Another mistake: *qimmeqarput. This means "they have dogs". qaq in its existential meaning works as if the location is the possessor of the noun; if there is no specified location, just translate "It has dogs" (qimmeqarpoq) in your head.

If the location were plural, then you would put put.

We haven't learned plurals quite yet, but we will soon!

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 11:39 
air
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My answers.

Spoiler: show
illuqarputit
kuuk qajaqarpoq
imeqarpugut
qamaqarpusi
qimmeqarpoq
atuagaqarpoq
illu qimmeqarpoq
kuuk imeqarpoq
illu inuqarpoq


Hope they're correct too.

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そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。
Spoiler: show
Ǧ Š Ȟ Ž Č

ǧ š ŋ ȟ ž č

:swe: [:D] :vgtl: [:D] :eng: [:)] :ita: [:|] :lkt: [:'(]


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 11:43 
wood
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rickardspaghetti wrote:
My answers.

Spoiler: show
illuqarputit
kuuk qajaqarpoq
imeqarpugut
qamaqarpusi
qimmeqarpoq
atuagaqarpoq
illu qimmeqarpoq
kuuk imeqarpoq
illu inuqarpoq


Hope they're correct too.


Close! Just remember to change <u> /u/ to <o> /o/ before uvular sounds.

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 13:19 
air
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BTW, while my dad and I were changing the tires of our car, I saw a dog, and I said to myself "qimmeqarpoq". I think it's sticking. [:D]

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そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。
Spoiler: show
Ǧ Š Ȟ Ž Č

ǧ š ŋ ȟ ž č

:swe: [:D] :vgtl: [:D] :eng: [:)] :ita: [:|] :lkt: [:'(]


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 19:47 
wood
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Awesome!

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 20:51 
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There is one thing I'm curious about. Earlier in this thread, you gave the sample "nerereerpunga" where an adverbial is incorporated between the verb and the personal ending. What happens to the V in the personal ending after adverbials? Are there certain rules which govern how it should be pronounced that differ from how we are used to doing it when the personal ending comes straight after the verb instead?

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そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。
Spoiler: show
Ǧ Š Ȟ Ž Č

ǧ š ŋ ȟ ž č

:swe: [:D] :vgtl: [:D] :eng: [:)] :ita: [:|] :lkt: [:'(]


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 21:29 
wood
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rickardspaghetti wrote:
There is one thing I'm curious about. Earlier in this thread, you gave the sample "nerereerpunga" where an adverbial is incorporated between the verb and the personal ending. What happens to the V in the personal ending after adverbials? Are there certain rules which govern how it should be pronounced that differ from how we are used to doing it when the personal ending comes straight after the verb instead?


Good question. The answer is no. The reasoning for makes sense, I think: just imagine that whatever non-personal agreement postbase you add to a verb root creates a new verb, and then the personal agreement postbases react as normal.

For example, let's take a look at the word you cited:

nerereerpunga

Let's take it apart:

niri "eat" + riiq "already" + Vunga "first person indicative singular"

The addition of the riiq postbase technically just makes a new verb, niririiq. The personal agreement postbase is added according to normal rules.

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 21:31 
wood
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Section Two: liuq "make, build"

The second postbase in this lesson is liuq. Just like qaq, liuq incorporates nouns to make verbs. Let's take a look at a few examples:
qajaq + liuq + Vuq = qajaliorpoq "he makes/has made a kayak"
inussuk "inukshuk" +liuq + Vut = inussuliorput "they make/have made an inukshuk"

You can make one important observation about this particular postbase:

(1) liuq is always attached to the vocalic stem of the incorporated noun.

Notice that the gloss form of the postbase doesn't use a majuscule L. This means that the every postbase that is glossed with a miniscule L will attach to the vocalic form of the stem. This contrasts with a majuscule L in gloss, which attaches to the consonant stem. More on that later, though.

Here are a few words to practice with:
tii "tea"
kaffi "coffee"
atuarfik "school"
illoqarfik "town"
assiliaq "picture, drawing"

How would you translate these sentences?

"I've made tea."
"Thou hast made coffee."
"We have built a school."
"You (pl) built the town."
"He made a river."
(Remember the i/u-uvular consonant rule and its converse for this one!) "They make dogs."
(This one might trip you up! En garde!) "I have drawn."

Check dem answers, yo!

Spoiler: show
tiiliorpunga
kaffiliorputit
atuarfiliorpugut
illoqarfiliorpusi
kuuliorpoq
qimmiliorput
assilialiorpunga

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 21:56 
air
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My answers.

Spoiler: show
tiiliorpunga
kaffiliorputit
atuarfiliorpugut
illoqarfiliorpusi
kuuliorpoq
qimmiliorput
assilialiorpunga

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そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。
Spoiler: show
Ǧ Š Ȟ Ž Č

ǧ š ŋ ȟ ž č

:swe: [:D] :vgtl: [:D] :eng: [:)] :ita: [:|] :lkt: [:'(]


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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 22:09 
wood
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rickardspaghetti wrote:
My answers.

Spoiler: show
tiiliorpunga
kaffiliorputit
atuarfiliorpugut
illoqarfiliorpusi
kuuliorpoq
qimmiliorput
assilialiorpunga


Tamarmik torerpoq! All good here!

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PostPosted: Tue 01 May 2012, 22:28 
air
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Pirka wrote:
rickardspaghetti wrote:
My answers.

Spoiler: show
tiiliorpunga
kaffiliorputit
atuarfiliorpugut
illoqarfiliorpusi
kuuliorpoq
qimmiliorput
assilialiorpunga


Tamarmik torerpoq! All good here!

Ajunnginneqavunga!

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そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。
Spoiler: show
Ǧ Š Ȟ Ž Č

ǧ š ŋ ȟ ž č

:swe: [:D] :vgtl: [:D] :eng: [:)] :ita: [:|] :lkt: [:'(]


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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 00:25 
wood
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Suna? What?
"Ajunngi" takuara kisianni "qavunga"-mik nalutsunga. I see "ajunngi" but I don't understand "qavunga".

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PostPosted: Wed 02 May 2012, 09:54 
air
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Pirka wrote:
Suna? What?
"Ajunngi" takuara kisianni "qavunga"-mik nalutsunga. I see "ajunngi" but I don't understand "qavunga".

I found it here. http://oqaaserpassualeriffik.org/tools/katersat/lexeme/kal/ajunnginneq/t/UNK

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そうだ。死んでいる人も勃起することが出来る。
俺はその証だ。
Spoiler: show
Ǧ Š Ȟ Ž Č

ǧ š ŋ ȟ ž č

:swe: [:D] :vgtl: [:D] :eng: [:)] :ita: [:|] :lkt: [:'(]


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PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012, 00:46 
wood
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Ah, you want to say ajunnginniivunga (ajunnginneq "best" +u "be" +Vunga).

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PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012, 01:04 
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Moar! [B)]

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Ikasmu ati'uki nai uraiur.
Hinai nimuśim naimi nai sasamiur urukani. Śi'ama nai huhumiur na ni'amuśim nai sasamiur.
Pumaki nimuśim śima'a na ami nimuśim ara'a. Hini nihrasum i'aku tumra urukani na nihrasum sanik hraspir.


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PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012, 01:40 
wood
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Moar it is!

Section Three: Tuq "consume"; or that goddamn T

The final postbase in this lesson is a pretty useful one. Incorporate a noun, either solid or liquid, and you get the word for "drink X/eat X". Let's take a look at a couple of examples:

tii + Tuq + Vunga = tiisorpunga "I drink tea"
kalaalleq "Greenlander" + Tuq + Vugut = kalaallisorpugut "We eat Greenlanders"
kuuk + Tuq + Vuq = kuuttorpoq "He has drunk the river"

There are three observations you can make about this postbase:

(1) When Tuq attaches to a vocalic stem, T is realized as <s> /s/.
(2) When Tuq attaches to a stem that ends in <q> /q/, T is realized as <s> /s/ and the <q> /q/ disappears.
(3) When Tuq attaches to a consonantal stem, T is realized as <t> /t/ (remember the consonant assimilation rule!).

Remeber: this is how all postbases that start with T work.

Here are some nouns:
arfeq "whale"
puisi "seal"
limonadi "soda/pop/coke"
iipili "apple"
neqi "meat"
aalisagaq "fish"

Translate these sentences.

"We eat apples."
"You drink soda."
"I eat meat."
"The whale eats fish."
"The Greenlander has eaten the seal."
"They eat apples."
"He has drunk tea."

Spoiler: show
iipilisorpugut
limonadisorputit
neqisorpunga
arfeq aalisagasorpoq
kalaalleq puisisorpoq
iipilisorput
tiisorpoq

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PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012, 01:50 
wood
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Addendum to Lesson Two

The postbases liuq and Tuq aren't always the only way to say "make" and "consume". Greenlandic sports separate verbs for those concepts: sana for "make", niri for "eat", and imiq for "drink". As far as I can tell, there is no difference in meaning between incorporation and not. Feel free to use both methods interchangeably. I taught the postbases first because otherwise I would have to teach you two other things: plurals and the ergative case.

Answers for Section One with sana:

Spoiler: show
tii sanavunga
kaffi sanavutit
atuarfik sanavugut
illoqarfik sanavusi
kuuk sanavoq
qimmit
(pl.) sanapput
assiliaq sanavunga


Answers for Section Two with niri and imiq:

Spoiler: show
iipilit nerivugut
limonadi imerputit
neqi nerivunga
arfip
(erg.) aalisagat nerivoq
kalaallip
(erg.) puisi nerivoq
iipili neripput
tii imerpoq

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