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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun 2012, 13:39 
darkness
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Can I have /s z ʃ t͡s t͡ʃ/ without /ʒ d͡ʒ/?
What is the better word for 2SG pronoun:<txín> or <co>


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 01 Jun 2012, 23:58 
greek
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Xaro wrote:
Can I have /s z ʃ t͡s t͡ʃ/ without /ʒ d͡ʒ/?
What is the better word for 2SG pronoun:<txín> or <co>


<txín>, definately.


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Sat 02 Jun 2012, 09:40 
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Xaro wrote:
Can I have /s z ʃ t͡s t͡ʃ/ without /ʒ d͡ʒ/?

Sure, why not? A phonology doesn't have to be perfectly symmetrical.

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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Sat 02 Jun 2012, 12:37 
darkness
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I've been wondering recently whether the current version of Kantaranyan is a bit too conservative for something that's supposed to be an international trading language in the continent it's from. Consequently I've been thinking of:

-Changing the phonological history a bit so it's a little less conservative (it's currently probably the most phonologically conservative language within its family)

and/or

-Modify the grammar a bit so that the verb system has less infixes and consonant alternations, which would probably be difficult for learners of Kantaranyan as a second language to pick up.

An alternative to the second one would perhaps be to add the option to use an auxiliary verb instead of inflecting the main verb, I suppose.

Should I do either of these things?

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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Sat 02 Jun 2012, 13:31 
darkness
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I think you should make Kantaranyan more phonologically innovative.
It'll be good to regularize position of infixes and simplify the consonant alterations.



In Catlalicút all verbs are ditransitive per default and are made monotransitive or intransitive by affixes.To keep that or not?


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Sat 02 Jun 2012, 15:38 
greek
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Xaro wrote:
It'll be good to regularize position of infixes and simplify the consonant alterations.


seconding this. maybe some back formation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-formation

Quote:
In Catlalicút all verbs are ditransitive per default and are made monotransitive or intransitive by affixes.To keep that or not?


keep


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Thu 28 Jun 2012, 17:08 
hieroglyphic
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Should I shift the words for 'elements' (water, air, fire, earth, life, perhaps some more) semantically, to mean instead water-bearer, fire-bearer, earth-bearer/farmer, etc.; and from there have a more person-focused etymology, while forming retronyms for the 'elements'?


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 01:54 
mayan
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Should I get rid of tone in Keoriki? It's fairly marginal anyway; high tone occurs about 75% of the time, but I fear Keoriki will lose much of its uniqueness if I kill it.

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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 02:14 
fire
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Keenir wrote:
Xaro wrote:
In Catlalicút all verbs are ditransitive per default and are made monotransitive or intransitive by affixes.To keep that or not?
keep

Yes. There are natlangs like that.


Starbucksguy wrote:
Should I shift the words for 'elements' (water, air, fire, earth, life, perhaps some more) semantically, to mean instead water-bearer, fire-bearer, earth-bearer/farmer, etc.; and from there have a more person-focused etymology, while forming retronyms for the 'elements'?

Sure.
OTOH why four elements (but I see you have "life" as a quintessence), and why those four?
Why not water, air, fire, metal, wood?
Maybe add "flesh"; maybe add "space" or "distance"?
And would a farmer be an earth-bearer, or an earth-worker?
What's a life-bearer? Would that be "female entity"?


Solarius wrote:
Should I get rid of tone in Keoriki? It's fairly marginal anyway; high tone occurs about 75% of the time, but I fear Keoriki will lose much of its uniqueness if I kill it.

Have you tried to expand the role of low tone? If low tone happens say 43% of the time instead of 25%, it would be a lot more balanced --- right?

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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 03:50 
hieroglyphic
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eldin raigmore wrote:

Starbucksguy wrote:
Should I shift the words for 'elements' (water, air, fire, earth, life, perhaps some more) semantically, to mean instead water-bearer, fire-bearer, earth-bearer/farmer, etc.; and from there have a more person-focused etymology, while forming retronyms for the 'elements'?

Sure.
OTOH why four elements (but I see you have "life" as a quintessence), and why those four?
Why not water, air, fire, metal, wood?
Maybe add "flesh"; maybe add "space" or "distance"?
And would a farmer be an earth-bearer, or an earth-worker?
What's a life-bearer? Would that be "female entity"?


The idea of the elements does not correspond directly to those terms, and include many things elsewise. Water is really "liquid", and is closely related to the sweeping motions used in the proto-lang, which was completely gestural; it is often used as a reference for direction (e.g. "toward this lake/river"). The "liquid" concept continues to cover coldness, darkness, evils and 'anti-civilization' in general; it is- although this is not a reason for it being a 'basic' element- seen as symbolic that humans must 'darken' or 'uncleanse' their souls by drinking water, and much theology is devoted to how to work toward purity, despite consumption of evil.
Air and 'earth' are essentially up and down, air is seen as containing all that exists, while earth is seen as forming all that exists; wood, and some plants, are considered to be "extensions" of the earth, much like mountains which are shaped differently, however 'earth' or 'ground' is seen actually as the living remains of one of the pantheon of gods, and as such things like "soil", "wood", and "metal" are all seen as features of the body. (On a side note, 'metal', being generally cold and dark after forging, can be described as "watery earth-stuff", and the con-people see it as a service to their god to take the 'evil' out of his body; as an additional result of this practice, leaching and other forms of bloodletting by other animals is considered a way to cleanse oneself of evil.) Meanwhile, air is seen as a sort of multi-looped, multi-layered screen, on which the earth/god "rolls", causing the sun and moon to pass, stars to pass, clouds to pass, and wind to pass. Things moving at different speeds have their own 'layer', and the whole system is thought to repeat at different intervals, hence the 'loops'. Earth is roughly likened to gestures used in ordering people in the proto-lang, while air is related to many of the more subtle gestures.
Fire is thought of as a loose opposite to water, as fire is seen as a a 'divine gift', and is used frequently in religious ceremonies (cremation is pretty much the only way to bury the dead, as it 'obliterates' all 'evil' left in an individual by water consumption). It encompasses the concepts of civilization, home, warmth, some emotions and other abstract concepts, war, and technology. In the proto-lang, "fire" encompasses nearly all abstract gestures, including acting and dance.
Life is the only one which is pretty self explanatory; it's mostly made up of words for people and things people do. Basically any concept, including abstract concepts, which don't fit in with other categories are dumped here.

As for the semantic shift, it would be mostly toward any occupation associated closely with the element, e.g. water-bearer is any low-class "untouchable" type who creates trenches, aqueducts, cisterns, wells, etc., as well as merchants; air-bearer is any "generic worker", such as a manufacturer; fire-bearer is a priest or warrior; earth-bearer is actually earth-worker, as was said, in that they farm, or mine; life-bearer or life-worker might be more along the lines of a hunter or animal farmer (although the language has no problem allowing multiple meanings the same word, so a female or, more specifically, a pregnant female may easily be referenced by the same word).

That said, things that are elementary, like wood, metal, food, and possibly any other combination of those listed would probably be "secondary" elements, and as s uch could have a similar semantic shift.


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 04:17 
mayan
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Joined: Fri 29 Apr 2011, 01:43
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Should I make the script for Kàmo an abugida?


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 04:51 
hieroglyphic
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Theta wrote:
Should I make the script for Kàmo an abugida?

Go for it. If it ends up not feeling right, then add whatever it needs until it does; worry about the classification later. That's what I did [:)]


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 08:27 
darkness
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Theta wrote:
Should I make the script for Kàmo an abugida?
Depends on the syllable structure of Kàmo. [;)] I will never make an usable abugida for Séprthn because it has (C)(C)(C)N(C)(C) syllable structure.


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 14:22 
mayan
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eldin raigmore][quote="Solarius wrote:
Should I get rid of tone in Keoriki? It's fairly marginal anyway; high tone occurs about 75% of the time, but I fear Keoriki will lose much of its uniqueness if I kill it.

Have you tried to expand the role of low tone? If low tone happens say 43% of the time instead of 25%, it would be a lot more balanced --- right?[/quote]
Well, I do like the imbalance. I'm considering getting rid of it because I've been bad about putting it my dictionary.

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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 14:58 
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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 17:02 
hieroglyphic
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Should I have animacy-based word order like Navajo, where the most animate noun must always come at the beginning of a clause?

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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Fri 29 Jun 2012, 17:09 
fire
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mich2000 wrote:
Should I have animacy-based word order like Navajo, where the most animate noun must always come at the beginning of a clause?

Why not?
Some conlang should be like Navajo; and your conlang should be like some natlang.

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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Sat 30 Jun 2012, 04:05 
hieroglyphic
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Should I use [ʀ͡r] as a phoneme? I recently discovered I could pronounce it and was tempted to put it into a conlang even though it doesn't exist in any natlang that I'm aware of.


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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Sat 30 Jun 2012, 14:54 
hieroglyphic
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denarii wrote:
Should I use [ʀ͡r] as a phoneme? I recently discovered I could pronounce it and was tempted to put it into a conlang even though it doesn't exist in any natlang that I'm aware of.

Wow, I just tried pronouncing that, and it sounds awesome. Move along, [ɮ], [ʀ͡r] is now my new favourite phoneme. And yes, you should use it.

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 Post subject: Re: Yay or Nay?
PostPosted: Sun 01 Jul 2012, 00:53 
greek
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Joined: Tue 22 May 2012, 03:05
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I think I made a homonym...should I keep both of these?:

ja [ʒæ] = die
ja [ʒæ] = whale

(the first one I coined today in the Translation folder - about bears. the second one, I had in my nonuploaded page of notes; part of the compound for "far")


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