New CBB

Discuss constructed languages, cultures, worlds, related sciences and much more!
It is currently Thu 23 May 2013, 12:04

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun 2012, 17:05 
shadowlight
shadowlight
User avatar

Joined: Sat 16 Oct 2010, 02:14
Posts: 2533
Location: Bakom dig.
Okay, I haven't posted anything con-related in ages so I thought I might make a development thread for Proto-Hyalim. So far there's not much... I've been having trouble deciding what I want to do with this language. I've been redoing the most basic things for ages now, but seeing as I want to develop a family from this proto-language I thought it was time to do something.

Anyway, ask and comment away—just keep in mind that I might not be able to answer them [:)]. I only have a basic idea of a few things. The case system, for instance, is still in development but I would still appreciate any comments that might help me develop it further.





Phonology
Inventory
The traditional reconstruction of Proto-Hyảlim consists of seven short vowels, five long vowels and two diphthongs. The low vowels */ɛ/ and */ɔ/ are theorized to have been realized as *[æ] and *[ɒ] by some scholars, seeing as they pattern with */a/ and */aː/.

/i iː u uː/ <i ỉ u ủ>
/e eː o oː/ <e ẻ o ỏ>
/ɛ a aː ɔ/ <ĕ a ả ŏ>
/a͡i a͡u/ <ai au>

Proto-Hyảlim is usually reconstructed as having a consonant inventory consisting of 19 separate phonemes. Despite being a very marginal phoneme—only occurring in a handful of reconstructed words—the phoneme */ŋ/ is never left out of reconstructions. There are a few phonemes some scholars choose to leave out, especially the three-way distinction of dental, alveolar and retroflex articulation in the coronals. The reason for this is the lack of evidence pointing towards there ever being one, seeing as Proto-Hyảlim is unwritten. The only daughter language to have retained this presumed three-way distinction is the extinct language Ayi. It has been argued that the three-way distinction is an innovation of Ayi rather than something inherited directly from Proto-Hyảlim. We will choose to ignore this theory and go with the majority; we will assume that Proto-Hyảlim actually possessed this three-way distinction.

/m n̪ n ɳ ŋ/ <m nh n ņ ŋ>
/p t̪ t ʈ k/ <p th t ţ k>
/θ s h/ <z s h>
/ɾ ɽ/ <r ŗ>
/w l ɭ j/ <w l ļ y>

Phonotactics
(C1)(G)V(C2)

The onset
The onset was optional in Proto-Hyảlim. It could consist of a single consonant or a consonant cluster. There were no restrictions regarding which consonant could appear in the onset, even though *ŋ appeared sparsely. However, there were restrictions regarding onset cluster. We have chosen to use the symbol G to describe the second element in the optional onset cluster simply because the glides *y and *w were the most common element, mainly because they could cluster with almost anything. The only exceptions were the retroflexes. They couldn't cluster with the glides; they could only cluster with *ŗ and *ļ. However, only *ţ and *ņ could do this; the other two retroflexes could only appear on their own in the syllable onset.

The nucleus
The nucleus was simple in Proto-Hyảlim; it could be any vowel, long or short. However, the diphthongs were restricted to open syllable. This often caused syllable-final diphthongs to monophthongize during suffixation. *ai and *au were monopthongized to *ĕ and *ŏ, respectively.

    *lảrau → *lảrŏk

The coda
Unlike the onset, the coda in Proto-Hyảlim was severely restricted to only a handful of consonants. It often had to harmonize with the following syllable's onset consonant or consonant cluster. In other words, one could say that there were two archiphonemes; *T and *N. This means that the coronals had to assimilate with the following syllable's onset. In other words, even if the root ends in *ţ, it would have to assimilate to *t if an added suffix begins with *n. Essentially, the syllable coda was restricted to having the three coronals (both nasal and plosive), *z, *s, *k and *m.

Stress
The stress in Proto-Hyảlim is believed to have been very simple and regular. Most native roots appear to have had primary stress on the penultimate syllable. Compounds received primary stress on the primary element and secondary stress on the secondary element.





Nominal morphology
Class
Proto-Hyảlim nouns possessed a class distinction consisting of animate and inanimate nouns, as well as an abstract or elemental class. Nouns of this type included body parts and abstract concepts like fear as well as words like *ỉma "water" and *nhaz "fire".

Definite and number
The indefinite plural is marked as a suffix which varied depending on the class or gender of the noun. Abstract (or elemental) nouns were marked using the suffix -k, while animate nouns utilized the suffix -z and inanimate nouns -s.

The definite singular is marked using the suffix -ra for animate nouns, using -na for inanimate nouns and -ya for abstract nouns.

ANIMATE
*kahĕ "fish"
    *kahĕra "the fish"
    *kehĕz "fish"
    *kahĕri "the fish"

INANIMATE
*katri "net"
    *katrina "the net"
    *katris "nets"
    *katrini "the nets"

ELEMENTAL
*lảrau "heart"
    *lảrauya "the heart"
    *lảrŏk "hearts"
    *lảrauyi "the hearts"

    Fun fact: Several of Proto-Hyảlims descendants would later add the plural suffixes to the definite plural forms as well through the use of analogy.

Case
Proto-Hyảlim had a case system consisting of six different cases: the nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, locative and instrumental. Each case usually had more than one role and the function of these cases were sometimes dependent on the class of the noun in question. For instance, the genitive when used with the post-position marked the origin of animate and abstract nouns; l­ảrauţu zĕ "of the heart". The origin of inanimate nouns used the same procedure only substituting the genitive case for the locative case; hảwan zĕ "of the earth/ground".

The case suffixes followed the number/definite suffixes. An epenthetic -e- was inserted between the plural suffix and the case suffix.

    -Ø "nominative"
    -th "accusative"
    -ţu "genitive"
    -ņi "dative"
    -m "locative"
    -si "instrumental"

• The nominative marked the subject of transitive and intransitive verbs. Impersonal verbs were required to carry a dummy verb which was marked using the dummy pronoun nara in its nominative form.

• The accusative marked the object of transitive verbs. Impersonal and intransitive verbs required a subject and an object. This was achieved through the use of the dummy pronoun narath in its dative, probably from the old accusative form.

• The genitive marked the possession of all nouns, as in "The man's (GEN) child". It also marked the origin of animate and elemental nouns alongside the post-position

• The dative marked the indirect object of a ditransitive verb. It was also used to mark possession of nouns in the sense of "having" something alongside the post-position mu, roughly translated as 'of' in glosses:

    kyảraņi mu lảrau
    kyả-ra-ņi mu lảrau
    child-DEF-DAT of heart
    The child has a heart

• The locative marked the general location of things with the use of postpositions meaning "in", "at/on" and so on. it also marked the origin of inanimate nouns alongside the post-position .

• The instrumental marked the instrument of an action, company and the subject of
causative constructions or ditransitive verbs.

Personal pronouns
The pronouns of Proto-Hyảlim were only marked for the nominative, genitive and dative. It is believed that that the other cases merged with the nominative and the genitive in Pre-Proto-Hyảlim. The nominative behaved like a nominative, accusative and instrumental, while the genitive behaved like a genitive and locative. The dative only took on the usual functions of a dative case, except for when the 3rd person pronoun was used as a dummy pronoun in intransitive and impersonal construction. In other words it is theorized that the 3rd person merged the accusative with the dative instead of the nominative.

1st person
Code:
     SINGULAR | PLURAL
NOM: ra       | raz     
GEN: rin      | rinaz
DAT: yuri     | yuraz


2nd person
Code:
     SINGULAR | PLURAL
NOM: ai       | ayĕz     
GEN: anả      | anĕz
DAT: ya       | yanaz


3rd person
Code:
     SINGULAR | PLURAL
NOM: nara     | naraz     
GEN: na       | naz
DAT: narath   | naraz

_________________
Proto-Hyảlim | Bjarmish

Ón gráti sem jett barn kvéner jag syggji jett lag um deiðan...
[oʊ̯n ˈgɾaːtɪ sɛmː jɛtː baɾn ˈkʰʋɛːnɛɾ jaː ˈsʏd͡ʑːɪ jɛtː laː ʊmː ˈdɛɪ̯an]


Last edited by Ceresz on Fri 08 Jun 2012, 14:08, edited 4 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun 2012, 17:14 
puremetal
puremetal
User avatar

Joined: Fri 13 Aug 2010, 18:57
Posts: 3056
Not much of a comment, but I like your chosen Romanization of the vowels especially.

_________________
♀♥♀
Dotjen
Kotanese


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun 2012, 17:50 
moderator
moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2010, 05:20
Posts: 3340
Location: 3:Å
I like where this is heading.
But I'd like to see some sentences soon. [:D]

_________________
Ikasmu ati'uki nai uraiur.
Hinai nimuśim naimi nai sasamiur urukani. Śi'ama nai huhumiur na ni'amuśim nai sasamiur.
Pumaki nimuśim śima'a na ami nimuśim ara'a. Hini nihrasum i'aku tumra urukani na nihrasum sanik hraspir.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun 2012, 17:52 
shadowlight
shadowlight
User avatar

Joined: Sat 16 Oct 2010, 02:14
Posts: 2533
Location: Bakom dig.
Thakowsaizmu wrote:
Not much of a comment, but I like your chosen Romanization of the vowels especially.

Heh, thanks [:)]. I'm kinda fond of them myself.

Ossicone wrote:
I like where this is heading.
But I'd like to see some sentences soon. [:D]

Thank you. Hopefully I'll be able to provide you with a few sentences soon enough [;)].

_________________
Proto-Hyảlim | Bjarmish

Ón gráti sem jett barn kvéner jag syggji jett lag um deiðan...
[oʊ̯n ˈgɾaːtɪ sɛmː jɛtː baɾn ˈkʰʋɛːnɛɾ jaː ˈsʏd͡ʑːɪ jɛtː laː ʊmː ˈdɛɪ̯an]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 07 Jun 2012, 19:21 
shadowlight
shadowlight
User avatar

Joined: Sat 16 Oct 2010, 02:14
Posts: 2533
Location: Bakom dig.
Here's the rough adjective sketch. I'm not all too pleased with the comparative constructions yet, but I decided to include them anyway. So, yeah, expect a revision soonish.





Adjectives
Color words
Proto-Hyảlim treated color words somewhat differently from other adjectives. Essentially, the structure of a color word was root + COLOR.SUFFIX. There were also only two basic types of color words. The first type consisted of five basic color roots:

*hảku - black
*ảmu - white
*naŗĕz - red
*wảki - green
*iyảņĕ - blue

There were also three basic color suffixes:

-ni "basic color"
-nim "dark color"
-niţ "light color"

The suffixes -nim and -niţ are actually independent roots meaning "dark" and "light". In other words it's more of a compounding process than one of adding suffixes:

    *hảkuniţ "dark gray"
    *ảmunim "light gray"

The second type of color words were derived from nouns using the color suffixes. For instance, *ļari "blood" + -ni would yield *ļarini "blood red/blood colored".

Attributive vs. predicative
Proto-Hyảlim used the the definite article to trigger predicative adjectives. In other words, attributive adjectives had no way of distinguishing between indefinite and indefinite.

nảwa thẻrim
nảwa thẻrim
beautiful girl
Beautiful girl.

nảwa thẻrimra
nảwa thẻrim-ra
beautiful girl-DEF/PRED
The girl is beautiful

Comparison
Basic comparison in Proto-Hyảlim was fairly straightforward.

Positive adjectives
nảwa - beautiful
nảwate - more beautiful
nảwaten - most beautiful

Negative adjectives
nảwaya - not beautiful
nảwayate - not more beautiful
nảwayaten - not most beautiful

ŗuyu nara thĕm ra
tall 3.SG and/also 1.SG
He is as tall as me.

ŗuyute nara ŋả ra
tall-COMP 3.SG than 1.SG
He is taller than me.

ŗuyuten nara kyảra
tall-SUP 3.SG child-DEF/PRED
He is the tallest child.

_________________
Proto-Hyảlim | Bjarmish

Ón gráti sem jett barn kvéner jag syggji jett lag um deiðan...
[oʊ̯n ˈgɾaːtɪ sɛmː jɛtː baɾn ˈkʰʋɛːnɛɾ jaː ˈsʏd͡ʑːɪ jɛtː laː ʊmː ˈdɛɪ̯an]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 08 Jun 2012, 14:20 
shadowlight
shadowlight
User avatar

Joined: Sat 16 Oct 2010, 02:14
Posts: 2533
Location: Bakom dig.
Just messing about trying to figure a few things out. Hopefully I'll have the energy to start working on the verbs soon.





wảki nemra pwỏram
wảki nem pwỏ-ra-m
green apple.NOM-PRED table-DEF-LOC
The green apple is on the table.

hyĕ wảki nemra pwỏram
hyĕ wảki nem-ra pwỏ-ra-m
REL green apple.NOM-DEF/PRED table-DEF/PRED-LOC
The apple that is green is on the table

pả naŗĕz menras
pả naŗĕz men-ra-s
PROX red apple-PRED-PL
These apples are red.

narath (sỏraņi) mu thaya menes
narath (sỏ-ra-ņi) mu thaya men-es
3.SG.DAT (man-DEF/PRED-DAT) of many apple-NOM-PL
He has many apples.

na (sỏraţu) menes
na (sỏ-ra-ţu) men-es
3.SG.GEN (man-DEF/PRED-GEN) apple.NOM-PL
His many apples.

_________________
Proto-Hyảlim | Bjarmish

Ón gráti sem jett barn kvéner jag syggji jett lag um deiðan...
[oʊ̯n ˈgɾaːtɪ sɛmː jɛtː baɾn ˈkʰʋɛːnɛɾ jaː ˈsʏd͡ʑːɪ jɛtː laː ʊmː ˈdɛɪ̯an]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2012, 18:09 
runic
runic
User avatar

Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 02:57
Posts: 1561
Dear Ceresz:

Canb you give a frame of reference for the con-people/con-culture that produced/spoke
Proto-Hyalim?

They have (fishing) nets, and they eat apples. Did they grow apples or just harvest them?
are they hunter-gatherers? Are they neolithic? are they a threshold civilization?

Hints? Thoughts?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun 2012, 22:09 
shadowlight
shadowlight
User avatar

Joined: Sat 16 Oct 2010, 02:14
Posts: 2533
Location: Bakom dig.
Well, so far I have been thinking early bronze age or maybe neolithic, but I'm not sure yet. The examples with the apples were only tests really, not much more. Hopefully I'll be able to give you some proper answers soon [:)].

_________________
Proto-Hyảlim | Bjarmish

Ón gráti sem jett barn kvéner jag syggji jett lag um deiðan...
[oʊ̯n ˈgɾaːtɪ sɛmː jɛtː baɾn ˈkʰʋɛːnɛɾ jaː ˈsʏd͡ʑːɪ jɛtː laː ʊmː ˈdɛɪ̯an]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 11 Jun 2012, 00:51 
runic
runic
User avatar

Joined: Sun 13 May 2012, 02:57
Posts: 1561
Dear Ceresz:

The folks at the Casma dig site in Peru had about as much to go on (fishnets, fish scales, fruit pips from the faraway jungle), and managed to unearth and piece together a civilization that rivaled that of the Egyptians, Chinese and Mesopotamians.

With time, I am sure you will do the same.

Cheers,

Lambuzhao


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 11 Jun 2012, 00:52 
shadowlight
shadowlight

Joined: Thu 12 Aug 2010, 16:42
Posts: 913
Your morphology, especially the definite and number suffixes, is really very nice. If I was one to have more than one lang at a time I would borrow the idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 12 Jun 2012, 17:28 
honored member
honored member
User avatar

Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2010, 15:22
Posts: 435
[:D]


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 12 Jun 2012, 17:30 
shadowlight
shadowlight
User avatar

Joined: Sat 16 Oct 2010, 02:14
Posts: 2533
Location: Bakom dig.
sano wrote:
Your morphology, especially the definite and number suffixes, is really very nice. If I was one to have more than one lang at a time I would borrow the idea.

Thanks. I doubt the definite and number suffixes will change (well, maybe in appearance), but you never know.

MONOBA wrote:
[:D]

I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks.

Edit: Or maybe you are smiling about the hooks [:P]?

_________________
Proto-Hyảlim | Bjarmish

Ón gráti sem jett barn kvéner jag syggji jett lag um deiðan...
[oʊ̯n ˈgɾaːtɪ sɛmː jɛtː baɾn ˈkʰʋɛːnɛɾ jaː ˈsʏd͡ʑːɪ jɛtː laː ʊmː ˈdɛɪ̯an]


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group