English Orthography Reform

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Zontas
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Zontas »

I have another plan cooked up, and I'm all too ready to begin sharing it with you guys. It seems like most English spelling reforms either lean more towards continental vowel spellings or violate unspoken rules permanently glued in people's minds (like long o is /oʊ̯:/). This will change that. By allowing multiple spellings, there not only will be homographs again, but if no word exists for there to be a homograph then multiple variations are allowed. In the third part of this I also plan to reform a little of the grammar and punctuation. I actually plan to get some of these made official.

So without further introduction, a spelling reform I shall designate...

...X English! (because this is my tenth try)

===

Part 1 of 3: Vowels

Overview

First, I'll start by introducing the vowel part of the reform. I sort the vowels by alphabetical order to make things simpler to explain in terms of orthography. The lists account for the long allophone, the short allophone, and occasionally the unstressed variant. Long high and low vowels simply lose their length when unstressed.

Note that the semivowels <w> and <y> act as consonants intervocally, rather than as part of a diphthong.

Shortening Enviroments:
  • Before any consonant cluster (regardless if it represents one sound), <x>, or <q>.
  • Before a consonant at the end of a word (including <h>).
Lengthening Environments:
  • At the end of a word (excluding final <e>)
  • Before another vowel (usually).
  • In the orthographical formation <VCe>.
Monographs

Aa
  • /æ/ when short.
  • /eɪ̯:/ when long. The lengthening cluster for <Aa> is <Ai ai>
  • /ə/ when unstressed.
Ee
  • /ɛ/ when short.
  • /i:/ when long. The lengthening cluster for <Ee> is <Ee ee>
  • /ɘ/ when unstressed (short only).
Ii
  • /ɪ/ when short.
  • /æɪ̯:/ when long. The lengthening cluster for <Ii> is either <Yy> or <Ie ie>.
  • /ɨ/ when unstressed (short only).ɨ
Oo
  • /ɔ̈/ when short.
  • /öʊ̯:/ when long. The lengthening cluster for <Oo> is <Oe oe>
  • /ɵ/ when unstressed.
Uu
  • /ʌ̈/ when short.
  • /ü:/ when long. The lengthening cluster for <Uu> is <Ue ue>.
  • /ʉ/ when unstressed (short only).
Ææ
  • /eɪ̯:/ everywhere. Replaceable by <Ai ai>. Removed from common, non-scientific words.

Œœ
  • /i:/ everywhere. Replaceable by <Ee ee>. Removed from common, non-scientific words.
Digraphs

Au au, Aw aw
  • /ɐ̈/ everywhere.
Ei ei, Ey ey
  • /i:/ everywhere.
Eu eu, Ew ew
  • /eʊ̯/ everywhere.
ia
  • /ʲæ~ʲeɪ̯:/ normally.
  • /æɪ̯:æ/ before <h>.
  • /æɪ̯:eɪ̯:/ before <e>.
iau, iaw
  • /ʲɐ̈/ normally.
  • /æɪ̯:ɐ̈/ before <h>.
ie
  • /ʲɛ~ʲi:/ normally.
  • /æɪ̯:ɛ/ before <h>.
  • /æɪ̯:i:/ before <e>.


io
  • /ʲɔ̈~ʲoʊ̯/ normally.
  • /æɪ̯:ɔ̈/ before <h>.
  • /æɪ̯:oʊ̯:/ before <e>, <w>, or both.


iu, iw
  • /ʲʌ~ʲü:/ normally.
  • /æɪ̯:ʌ/ before <h>.
  • /æɪ̯:ü:/ before <e>.
Oi oi, Oy oy
  • /oɪ̯/ everywhere.
Oo oo
  • /ʊ~ü:/ everywhere. Note that the tenseness is in free variation.
Ou ou, Ow ow
  • /ɐ̈ʊ̯/ everywhere.
===

If you read up to this, leave all thoughts, complaints, suggestions in my private messaging inbox.
Last edited by Zontas on 31 Dec 2013 03:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Zontas
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Zontas »

Part 2 of 3: Consonants

Overview

Due to the simplicity of consonantal phonemic variants, all consonants will be listed in order of IPA-English Alphabet proximity. Note that <Ph ph> and other greek spellings are anglicized in common, non-scientific words (ellefant vs. hydrophobia). Consonants preceding an unstressed vowel which has been preceded by double consonants are not doubled. Palatalization is absent in monosyllabic words.

Shortened Forms prevent vowels from lengthening.

Lengthened Forms allow vowels to lengthen.

Monophemes

/b/
  • <Bb> usually.
  • <bb> shortening.
/d/
  • <Dd> usually.
  • <dd> shortening.
/ð/
  • <Dh dh> is to be taught/made official, but the older generation is allowed to use <Th th>.
/ɜ˞~ə˞/
  • <Cr>.
/f/
  • <Ff> usually.
  • <ff> shortening.
/g/
  • <Gg> usually, before back vowels. Never is soft word-finally.
  • <Gh gh> shortening, before front vowels.
  • <gg> shortening, before back vowels.
/h/
  • <Hh> always shortening.
/j/
  • <Yy> everywhere.
/ɾ̩/ (supposed to be an upside-down <j>)
  • <HyV hyV> or <YhV yhV> everywhere.
/k/
  • <Cc> before a back vowel. Never appears soft word-finally, except in scientific words.
  • <Kk> before a front vowel.
  • <ck> shortening.
  • /kw/ is optionally <Qu qu> or <Qw qw>. Kw kw or Cw cw is recommended. <Qq> would still occur in some loans like 'Qatar' and 'status quo'.
  • /ks/ is optionally <Xx> if not a pluralization. Ks ks or Cs cs or cs ccF is recommended. <Xx> is still /z/ initially, except in a few words like 'xor' or 'xacutti'.
/l/
  • <Ll> usually.
  • <ll> shortening.
/m/
  • <Mm> usually.
  • <mm> shortening.

/n/
  • <Nn> everywhere
  • <nn> shortening.
/ŋ/
  • <Ng ng> everywhere.
/p/
  • <Pp> usually.
  • <pp> shortening.
/r/
  • <Rr> usually.
  • <rr> shortening.
/s/
  • <Ss> usually.
  • <c> as soft <Cc> (see above).
  • <ss> shortening.
/ʃ/
  • <Sh sh> usually.
  • <Si si> under palatalization.
/t/
  • <Tt> normally.
  • <tt> shortening.
/θ/
  • <Th th> normally.
/v/
  • <Vv> normally.
  • <vv> is to be taught/ made official, but the older generation is permitted to not double shortening <v>.
/w/
  • <Ww> everywhere.
/ʍ/
  • <Hw hw> or <Wh wh> everywhere.
/x/
  • <Kh kh> everywhere.
/z/
  • <Zz> normally.
  • <zz> shortening.
  • <Xx> word-initially.
/ʒ/
  • <Zh zh> normally.
  • <Zi zi> as palatalized <Zz>.
Affricates

/tʃ/
  • <Ch ch> normally.
  • <Ti ti> as palatalized <Tt>.
/dʒ/
  • <Jj> normally.
  • <dj> shortening, and word-finally.
  • <Gg> softened (see above).
  • <Di di> palatalized <Dd>.
Phase 2

<Cc> substitutes <Ch ch>.
<Ðð> substitutes <Dh dh>.
<Gg> substitutes <Gh gh>.
<jj> substitutes <dj>.
<Kk> substitutes <Cc>.
<Kw kw> substitutes <Qu qu>.
<Ks ks> substitutes <Xx>.
<Þþ> substitutes <Th th>.
<Ȝȝ> substitutes <Kh kh>.

Edit: Ii, Oo, Uu, xor Ee plus hC or h equals a long vowel.
Last edited by Zontas on 31 Dec 2013 03:57, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by ol bofosh »

Taking the modern spelling of words with Old English etymology and using those as the basis to regularise vowel spellings.
(Taiking the modern speling of werds with Oald Inglish etimolegy and Yuusing thoas as the baisis too regyalerise vowl spelings)

TRAP/BATH/PALM - a
STEP - e
FLEECE - ee
KIT/rosEs - i
CLOTH/LOT - o
THOUGHT - au or aw
GOOSE - oo
FOOT/STRUT - u

PRICE - y, iCe or igh
MOUTH - ou or ow
FACE - eigh, ay or ai
CHOICE - oi or oy
GOAT - oa

START - ar
SQUARE - ear
NURSE/CURE - ur, ir or er
NEAR - eer
FORCE/NORTH - or or oar

happY - y
commA - a or e
lettER - er
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Zontas
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Zontas »

Lemme try the reform now:

Dhare wons waz a man frum Nantucket,
hu had a dick so long he cood suck it.
Wons, hwile standing riht dhare,
he shout'd tu dhe air:
"If my noze wr a cunt I'd fuck it.".
Last edited by Zontas on 31 Dec 2013 03:48, edited 1 time in total.
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kanejam
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Re: My Attempt At English Spelling Reform

Post by kanejam »

Xing wrote: [...]

I could repeat the criteria I suggested a couple of pages ago. A hypothetical "reference accent" for a spelling reform would:

-be rhotic
-be yod-retaining, but would not have undergone yod-coalescence (tune and toon would pronounced differently; as as would dune and June)
-not have undergone the trap-bath split (glass would rhyme with gas, and dancer would rhyme with cancer)
-not have undergone the lot-cloth split (cross would not rhyme with sauce)
-not have merged /ɑː/ and /ɒ/ (father would not rhyme with bother)
-not have merged /ɒ/ and /ɔː/ (cot and caught would be pronounced differently)

Those splits and mergers are the causes of many of the present phonological differences between English dialects.
I whole-heartedly agree with these criteria! Even though my dialect is non-rhotic, pronunciation is easily predictable from spelling, and these r's do pop up in places (linking r). I do have trap-bath split so this one is a bit trickier, but can still just be learnt from spelling and conveniently reduces the vowel phoneme count.
Xing wrote:Some phonological differences would be little more problematic. An "etymological" approach to forming a reference dialect would ignore the foot-strut split (so that cut would rhyme put). But since the vast majority of dialects have the foot-strut split, one could argue that a hypothetical reference dialect should incorporate it.

Another problematic issue is how to handle recent loanwords with <a> (pasta, mafia). GA usually have /ɑ(ː)/ in those, while many other accents have /æ/. Since many of those words has been borrowed quite recently, it does not make sense to ask which English dialect is most conservative here (the words have so to speak entered the English language in different forms in different accents).
I agree that the foot-strut split should be in a representative standard dialect, however this introduces an extra phoneme that isn't hugely contrastive. If there were an easy way to separate the two phonemes in spelling then it would be fine, but it could be difficult.

The second thing shouldn't be a problem if we aren't representing the trap-bath split or the father-bother merger. These words will just have <a> everywhere like they do now. IMO the tricky thing here are the few words that behave weirdly across dialects. In my lect palm and calm rhyme with harm and farm. Should they be grouped with the rest of the a's and so homographic with cam and Pam, or grouped with the o's?

I might just propose my own spelling reform [:)]
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Ambrisio »

-------------
Last edited by Ambrisio on 11 Dec 2014 09:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by ol bofosh »

Both the US and the UK set up academies to iron out, and even replace, conventional English spelling. Since there's no academies in other English countries the academies only concentrate on a phonemic spelling based on RP and GA. They will allow various spellings (and in the future the least popular spellings will be removed gradually), and probably people either side of the pond will favour different things.
Words that are already written according to these rules will maintain their current form, and alternative forms will not be accepted e.g. oral and aural, never oaral.

My plan has been to keep to conventions already in use and yet also allow for ambiguity. It is more phonemically faithful than current English orthography (at least for GA and RP accents), but there's plenty of overlap phonemically and orthographically. I think that makes for something fairly familiar and yet versatile.

Short conditions: VC, VCC
Long conditions: V(C)V (where the preceding vowel is lengthened.)
Digraphs may produce long or short vowels.

US UK

<A a>
Short: /æ ɑ æ ɑː/
Long: / /
Unemphasied: /ə ə/

<E e>
Short: /ɛ e/
Long: /i /
Unemphasied: /ə ə/
Word final: silent; used for lengthening of previous vowels, except when it the only syllable, e.g. be, we, me, etc. (not the, which is /ðə/).

<I i>
Short: /ɪ ɪ/
Long: / /

Becomes long when word final.

<O o>
Short: /ɑ ɒ/
Long: / əʊ/

Becomes long when word final.

<U u>
Short: ʌ ʊ ʌ ʊ
Long: /u /
Becomes long when word final. May take on invisible /j/ before the vowel.

<y>
/ /

Also used for happY vowel. Changes to ee or i in the case of plural: bunny - bunneez/bunniz.

<Au au>
/ɔ ɔː/
Written aw when word final.

<Ai ai>
/ /
Written ay when word final.

<Ee ee>
/i /

<Ia ia>

/ɪə jə ɪə jə/

Alternative spelling: Ie ie

<Oo oo>
/u /

<Oa oa>
/ əʊ/

<Oi oi>
/ɔɪ ɔɪ/
Written oy when word final.

<Ou ou>
/ /
Written ow when word final.

Rhotics
Placing r after certain vowels has certain effects. When a rr is written after a vowel it retains its short quality.

<Ar ar>
/ɑr ɑː/

<Air air>
/ɛr ɛə/

<Aur aur>
/ɔr ɔː/

<Ir ir>
/ɜr ɜː/

<Er er>
Emphasised: /ɜr ɜː/
Unemphasised: /ɚ ə/

<Eer eer>
/ɪr ɪə/

<Or or>
/ɔr or ɔː/

<Oar oar>
/or ɔː/

<Ur ur>
/ʊr ʊə/ - ur
May take on an invisible /j/ before the vowel.

GA/RP
æ/æ - a
ɑ/ɑː - a
ɛ/e - e
ɪ/ɪ - i
ɑ/ɒ - o
ʌ/ʌ - u
ʊ/ʊ - u
i/iː - ee
ɔ/ɔː - au
u/uː - oo

eɪ/eɪ - ai ay
oʊ/əʊ - oa
aɪ/aɪ - y
ɔɪ/ɔɪ - oi oy
aʊ/aʊ - ou ow

ɜr/ɜː - er
ɪr/ɪə - eer
ɛr/ɛə - air
ɑr/ɑː - ar
ɔr/ɔː - or aur
or/ɔː - or oar
ʊr/ʊə - ur

Consonants
Consonants will be doubled between vowels to retain short vowel quality of the preceding vowel.
<p b t d k> /p b t d k/
<f v s z h> /f v s z h/
<j> /dʒ/
<w l r y> /w l r j/
<m n ng> /m n ŋ/

Special
<c>
Soft (before e and i): /s/
Hard (before a, o and u): /k/

<g>
Soft (before e and i): /dʒ/
Hard (before a, o and u): /g/

Digraphs:
<qu> /kw/
<gh> use for when /g/ appears before e or i.
<ph> /f/ only for words already spelt like this.
<ch> /tʃ ~ x/
<sh> /ʃ ~ ʒ/
<th> /θ ~ ð/
<wh> /ʍ ~ w/ optional for words already spelt with this. Likely to go out of fashion.

Rite, I think I haven't left ennething out. I'l eddit it if thair iz ennething missing.

Edit: thanks tu Zontas for sumthing tu werk/wirk from.
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by ol bofosh »

Inglish Reeform
I'v started on one page, alredy.

Could anyone suggest a suitable text (about a paragraph) to show examples of each orthography?
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by eldin raigmore »

ol bofosh wrote:Could anyone suggest a suitable text (about a paragraph) to show examples of each orthography?
I suggest "Comma gets a cure".
It's four paragraphs, but it includes every English phoneme that has differing pronunciations in different 'lects. (Or some approximation of that statement.)
"Comma Gets a Cure" and derivative works may be used freely for any purpose without special permission provided the present sentence and the following copyright notification accompany the passage in print, if reproduced in print, and in audio format in the case of a sound recording: Copyright 2000 Douglas N. Honorof, Jill McCullough & Barbara Somerville. All rights reserved.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by ol bofosh »

[quote]What looks better from a GA point of view:
<au> for /ɔ/ and <o> for /ɑ/ (clauth, thaut, pom, lot)
or
<au> for /ɑ/ and <o> for /ɔ/ (paum, laut, cloth, thot)?[/edit]

Does anyone know?
Last edited by ol bofosh on 30 Aug 2013 02:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by ol bofosh »

Edit: Xonen: I'm going to assume this is meant to be a question about a hypothetical English orthography reform, so I'm moving it to the thread we have dedicated for that sort of stuff. [:)]
Good assumption. [:)] (I was wondering where this message had disappeared to).

Yes, I'm experimenting with doing a reform using GA, but since GA doesn't have /Q/ afaik,that leaves me wondering what to do with <o>, whether it would be better for /O/ or /A/.

Edit: in an equivalent reform for RP I'd do this: <au> for /O:/ and <o> for /Q/ (not really sure about /A:/ at the mo)
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Ear of the Sphinx »

Połlisz rejps Inglisz.

Konsynynts:

/m n ŋ/ ‹m n nɡ›
/p t tʃ k/ ‹p t cz k›
/b d dʒ ɡ/ ‹b d dż ɡ›
/f θ s ʃ h/ ‹f ś s sz h›
/v ð z ʒ/ ‹w ź z ż›
/w l ɹ j/ ‹ł l r j›

Wałylz: (Risijwd Prynynsiejszyn)

/ɪ iː ɪə/ ‹i ij ir›
/ʊ uː ʊə/ ‹u uł ur›
/ɛ ɛɪ ɛə/ ‹e ej er›
/ɒ ɔɪ əʊ ɔː/ ‹o oj oł or›
/ɐ ɜː/ ‹y yr›
/æ aɪ aʊ ɑː/ ‹a aj ał ar›

Wałylz: (Dżenryl Ymerikyn)

/ɪ iː iɹ/ ‹i ij ir›
/ʊ uː ʊɹ/ ‹u uł ur›
/ɛ eɪ ɛɹ/ ‹e ej er›
/ɑ ɔɪ oʊ ɔɹ/ ‹o oj oł or›
/ʌ ɝ/ ‹y yr›
/æ aɪ aʊ ɑɹ/ ‹a aj ał ar›
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Click »

Kroejšen džojns d rejp.

Kansenents:

/m n ŋ/ m n ng
/p t tʃ k/ p t č k
/b d dʒ ɡ/ b d dž g
/f θ s ʃ h/ f t s š h
/v ð z ʒ/ v d z ž
/w l ɹ j/ v l r j

Vauvelz: (Risivd Pranansiejšen)

/ɪ iː ɪə/ i i ir
/ʊ uː ʊə/ u u ur
/ɛ ɛɪ ɛə/ e ej er
/ɒ ɔɪ əʊ ɔː/ a oj o or
/ɐ ə ɜː/ a e er
/æ aɪ aʊ ɑː/ e aj au ar

Vauvelz: (Dženrel Emeriken)

/ɪ iː iɹ/ i i ir
/ʊ uː ʊɹ/ u u ur
/ɛ eɪ ɛɹ/ e ej er
/ɑ ɔɪ oʊ ɔɹ/ a oj o or
/ʌ ə ɚ ɝ/ a e er er
/æ aɪ aʊ ɑɹ/ e aj au ar

De kvik braun faks džamps over de lejzi dag.
/ðə kwɪk bɹaʊn fɒks dʒʌmps əʊvə ðə leɪzi: dɒg/
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Egerius »

Click wrote:Kroejšen džojns d rejp.

Kansenents:

/m n ŋ/ m n ng
/p t tʃ k/ p t č k
/b d dʒ ɡ/ b d dž g
/f θ s ʃ h/ f t s š h
/v ð z ʒ/ v d z ž
/w l ɹ j/ v l r j

Vauvelz: (Risivd Pranansiejšen)

/ɪ iː ɪə/ i i ir
/ʊ uː ʊə/ u u ur
/ɛ ɛɪ ɛə/ e ej er
/ɒ ɔɪ əʊ ɔː/ a oj o or
/ɐ ə ɜː/ a e er
/æ aɪ aʊ ɑː/ e aj au ar

Vauvelz: (Dženrel Emeriken)

/ɪ iː iɹ/ i i ir
/ʊ uː ʊɹ/ u u ur
/ɛ eɪ ɛɹ/ e ej er
/ɑ ɔɪ oʊ ɔɹ/ a oj o or
/ʌ ə ɚ ɝ/ a e er er
/æ aɪ aʊ ɑɹ/ e aj au ar

De kvik braun faks džamps over de lejzi dag.
/ðə kwɪk bɹaʊn fɒks dʒʌmps əʊvə ðə leɪzi: dɒg/
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Click »

Egerius wrote:
Click wrote:Kroejšen džojns d rejp.

Kansenents:

/m n ŋ/ m n ng
/p t tʃ k/ p t č k
/b d dʒ ɡ/ b d dž g
/f θ s ʃ h/ f t s š h
/v ð z ʒ/ v d z ž
/w l ɹ j/ v l r j

Vauvelz: (Risivd Pranansiejšen)

/ɪ iː ɪə/ i i ir
/ʊ uː ʊə/ u u ur
/ɛ ɛɪ ɛə/ e ej er
/ɒ ɔɪ əʊ ɔː/ a oj o or
/ɐ ə ɜː/ a e er
/æ aɪ aʊ ɑː/ e aj au ar

Vauvelz: (Dženrel Emeriken)

/ɪ iː iɹ/ i i ir
/ʊ uː ʊɹ/ u u ur
/ɛ eɪ ɛɹ/ e ej er
/ɑ ɔɪ oʊ ɔɹ/ a oj o or
/ʌ ə ɚ ɝ/ a e er er
/æ aɪ aʊ ɑɹ/ e aj au ar

De kvik braun faks džamps over de lejzi dag.
/ðə kwɪk bɹaʊn fɒks dʒʌmps əʊvə ðə leɪzi: dɒg/
Now we have a Germanic language with Romance superstratum and Czech Croatian (Southern Slavic) orthography... Most international language ever!
There are real languages which are more "international", for example Haitian Creole. [;)]
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Egerius
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Egerius »

Croatian was my first thought. But hey, why won't we take Polish orthography and use it for English?
Languages of Rodentèrra: Buonavallese, Saselvan Argemontese; Wīlandisċ Taulkeisch; More on the road.
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
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Sumelic
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Sumelic »

An experimental orthography:
Coma gets a Keur
Wel, hier’s a storie for yo: Sarah Perry wøs a veterinairie ners hu had bin werking dailie at an old zoo in a dezerted district øf the territorie, soe xie wøs verry hapie to start a new job at a seupirb priyvat practis in North Squair nier the Duke Street Tøwer. That airia wøs møtx nierer for her and mor to her liyking. Even soe, on her ferst morning, xie felt stresd. Xie ait a boul øf poridj, txekd herself in the mirror and waxd her fais in a hurrie. Then xie put on a plain yelloe dres and a flies jakit, pikd øp her kit and heded for wørk.
When xie got thair, thair wøs a wuman with a goos waiting for her. The wuman gave Sarah an øfixel leter frøm the vet. The leter impliyd that the animel cud be søfering frøm a rair form øf fut and møuth dizies, witx wøs surprising, biecøs normelie yu wud ounlie expect to sie it in a dog or a gout. Sarah was sentimentel, soe this maid her fiel sorry for the beutifel berd.
Before long, that itxie goos biegan to strøt arøund the ofis liyk a leunatic, which maid an unsanitairie mes. The gooses ouner, Mary Harrison, kept caaling, “Comma, Comma,” witx Sarah thaut wøs an od txois for a naim. Comma wøs strong and heudj, so it wud taik søm fors to trap her, bøt Sarah had a diferent iydia. Ferst xie triyd djentlie strouking the gooses lower bak with her paam, then singing a teun to her. Fiynely, she administerd ether. Her eferts wer not feutel. In noe tiym, the goos began to tiyr, soe Sarah wøs abel to hould onto Comma and giv her a relaksing bath.
Wøns Sarah had manedjd to baidh the goos, xie wiypd her of with a cloth and laid her on her riyt siyd. Then Sarah cønfermd the vet’s diyagnousis. Aulmoust imiediatlie, she rememberd an efectiv trietment that requiyrd her to mezeur øut a lot øf medisin. Sarah warnd that this cors of trietment miyt be ekspensiv--either fiyv or siks tiymz the cost of penisilin. Iy cant imadjin paying soe møtx, but Mises Harrisøn--a milyønair loyer--thaut it wøs a fair priys for a keur.

I'm not sure about the use of x, but… it seemed better than the alternatives.
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Xing
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Xing »

I went to the enemy board and found yet another thread with a spelling reform proposal. See also the linked website.

What do you think?
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Click
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by Click »

Why enemy?
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sangi39
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Re: English Orthography Reform

Post by sangi39 »

Click wrote:Why enemy?
It's probably a joking nod to the "rivalry" between the CBB and the ZBB, being the two of the major conlanging forums on web (although it appears that some users on both boards take this "rivalry" a bit more seriously than others).
Xing wrote:I went to the enemy board and found yet another thread with a spelling reform proposal. See also the linked website.

What do you think?
I'm not a fan, really. My main problem* is the wholesale representation of reduced vowels as <ø> and the generally unnecessary use of <ç x þ ð> to represent sounds that are fairly well handled by digraphs (as other users have pointed out, the number of instances where <ch sh th> represent /k.h s.h t.h/ are few and far between and only at morpheme boundaries).

Further, I think the assignment of purely "European" (I think we should just come out and say it, it's really "Latinate" rather than "European") vowel qualities to the vowel letters really just doesn't work for English given the alternation of "long" and "short" vowels in some English words, and again, the alternation in pronunciation of stressed and unstressed vowels. Sure, there's umlaut and ablaut as well, which means you will end up having to use different vowels, e.g. "swim", "swam" and "swum", but as one user pointed out, "photograph" and "photography" have different pronunciations due to a shift in stress from one syllable to another, not because the underlying vowels are different.

Anyway, cutting it short because I can't be bothered writing any more, I don't really like this reform. I think English is just one of those languages which, due to its history, just doesn't fit a purely phonemic orthography and needs some level of morphemic spelling.


*other than the user's general attitude, but I've tried not to let that affect my judgement too much
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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