Early modern Swedish

[HinGambleGoth]

I got the idea for this thread from all the discussions regarding the rise of spelling-based pronunciations in modern standard Swedish, so i thought to myself, what if you would ignore the formal spelling influenced standard Swedish pronunciations and delve into colloquial speech and traditional dialects, in an attempt to sort out what Swedish sounds like based on its regular development from Old Swedish.

I think this is an interesting topic since it would be fun to see where standard Swedish diverges from the traditional spoken variety.

Scanian, Jämtish and Gutnish are not discussed here, since they are not Swedish, but rather, related north Germanic idioms displaced by Swedish.

What i mean with Swedish here is a kind of generalized traditional Svealandic.

Old Swedish will be represented with Wessén based normalization, Early modern/traditional Swedish with the pre-1906 orthography, and modern standard Swedish with the modern standard spelling.

Lets start it of with some commonly used words!

<till> "to" /te:/
<och> "and" /ɔ:/
<jag> "I" /jɑ:/ (homophone with <ja>)
<du> "thou" /dʉ:/ realized /ɾɵ/ when unstressed.
<de> "they" /dɪ/, mostly pronounced with a short vowel.

In terms of grammar Early modern swedish also differed from modern standard Swedish, for instance the inherited Germanic three-gender system was still intact, as you can see here in the adjectives.

Ful-er karl /fʉ:ɽər kɑ:r/
Ful tös /fʉ:ɽ tø:s/
Ful-t hus /fʉ:ʈ hʉ:s/ (notice that the <l> merges with /t/ to create a retroflex)

[Ephraim]

The term Early Modern Swedish usually corresponds to äldre nysvenska, I think, i.e. the period from 1526 to the mid 1700s. Is this the period that this thread is about? Or is it about early nusvenska, i.e. the language spoken from 1900.

[HinGambleGoth]

The term Early Modern Swedish usually corresponds to äldre nysvenska, I think, i.e. the period from 1526 to the mid 1700s. Is this the period that this thread is about? Or is it about early nusvenska, i.e. the language spoken from 1900.

I am thinking of spoken swedish roughly in between the period of great power (stormaktstiden) and the standardization of the spoken language, Spoken swedish seems to have been fairly stabile from the 1700's to the early 20th century.

Ephraim the wovel ô is mostly associated with Geatish dialects today, but you seem to find it in more eastern dialects in older dodumentations in the 18-19th century, the merger wasnt as spread then. I geuss we should include it.

[Prinsessa]

lolollol this is just modern västgötska (besides the icky /ɾɵ/) u jelly ; ))

[HinGambleGoth]

lolollol this is just modern västgötska (besides the icky /ɾɵ/) u jelly ; ))

But these pronounciations are practicaly universal in colliqual rural swedish, and they are described already in the 18th century. Förstår'u?

[Prinsessa]

ya, but I mean that it's still sticking around elsewhere than eastern Svealand to this day~

[Ephraim]

I am thinking of spoken swedish roughly in between the period of great power (stormaktstiden) and the standardization of the spoken language, Spoken swedish seems to have been fairly stabile from the 1700's to the early 20th century.

So, yngre nysvenska, basically. This seems to be commonly translated as Late Modern Swedish.

Ephraim the wovel ô is mostly associated with Geatish dialects today, but you seem to find it in more eastern dialects in older dodumentations in the 18-19th century, the merger wasnt as spread then. I geuss we should include it.

Yes, but it seems to have (slowly) disappeared here sometime during this period. It probably didn't have the fronted pronunciation either, it may have been distinct from å in being more open.

Wessén has the following to say:

[HinGambleGoth]

Yes, but it seems to have (slowly) disappeared here sometime during this period.

Carl nyrén writes, in the mid 18th century that is.

It probably didn't have the fronted pronunciation either, it may have been distinct from å in being more open.

To me ô sounds like /ɶ/, quite similar to my very open Östgötska ö vowel, I reckon Östgötska at the time had vowel system more similar to Värmländska or Västgötska with close and front /ø/ contrasting with a more central /ɶ/.

Regarding consonants Nyrén also notes that Old swedish /ð/ was lost altogether. he lists forms such as.

rie from Oswe riþa "to ride"
klä from Oswe klæþa "to clothe"
fjär from Oswe fiæþer "feather"

This loss is still fairly commonly heard in colloquial rural Swedish, whereas the standard language has /d/ here.

Regarding the loss/vocalization of Oswe /ɣ/ <gh> I cant seem to find any general pattern, there seems to be trend of vocalization adjacent to front vowels and merging with /g/ around back vowels and/or complete loss finally.

we have Oswe høgher = hög, but høghd = höjd, then we also have sæghia = säja, but vægh = väg.

Nyrén also writes that <hv> was still a distinct sound in pairs like hval-val, since this sound was described as something like /hw/, i reckon we can rule out that 18th century Swedish had the modern slightly rounded velar sj-sound, and that the "thin" sj-sound as in Finland swedish or Norweigan was still the dominant one, an 18th century swedish speaker would think a modern central speakers that says skit "shit" would say hvit "white". Nyrén also describes /w/ remaing in consonant klusters like <kv> /kw/.

Det är förtretligt och ganska förargeligit at höra huru de här i Stockholm ju lengre ju meer bortleggia detta aspiratum, som i sigh sielft är manligt prydeligt och myckit anseenligit; och i des stelle uthsäija allenast w. för hwart, hwarken, hwass, hwilken säija de: wart, warken, wass, wilken: hwarigenom det Swenska språketz egenskap myckit förnär skeer och förringas med en skändelig weklighet ståndandes sådant bettre i en sluna eller skökia an än en Swensk Man

Swedish nobleman Urban Hiärne decried the ongoing which/witch merger in Swedish, likening any man that merges them to a slut or whore.

So regarding the infamous "sj" and "tj" sounds, i would give the reconstructed old-timey swedish a setup quite familiar to English speakers (and far easier to pronounce) /ʃ/ <sj> and /ʧ/ <tj>

Another interesting question that has bothered me is how Finland Swedish dialects never merged /dj/ with /g/ before front vowels, they are still distinct, "soft g" being /j/ and <dj> being /ʤ/ I reckon they went through different stages without merging, since there are dialects that have /ʤ/ for "soft g". Presumably /dj/ and /ʤ/ contrasted at some point.

[Prinsessa]

/ɞ/ is what I've been taught to use for ô

Pretty sure our ö here is [œ] with some offglide, or onglide rather.

[DrGeoffStandish]

Nyrén also writes that <hv> was still a distinct sound in pairs like hval-val, since this sound was described as something like /hw/, i reckon we can rule out that 18th century Swedish had the modern slightly rounded velar sj-sound, and that the "thin" sj-sound as in Finland swedish or Norweigan was still the dominant one, an 18th century swedish speaker would think a modern central speakers that says skit "shit" would say hvit "white". Nyrén also describes /w/ remaing in consonant klusters like <kv> /kw/.

It seems like the contrast hv- [w] vs v- [v] was very widespread in the dialects during especially the 18th century and that it was during the 17th century that the aspiration (or whatever remained of h) was lost. In the 19th century [w] turned into [v] in most dialects, which is kind of sad.

Det är förtretligt och ganska förargeligit at höra huru de här i Stockholm ju lengre ju meer bortleggia detta aspiratum, som i sigh sielft är manligt prydeligt och myckit anseenligit; och i des stelle uthsäija allenast w. för hwart, hwarken, hwass, hwilken säija de: wart, warken, wass, wilken: hwarigenom det Swenska språketz egenskap myckit förnär skeer och förringas med en skändelig weklighet ståndandes sådant bettre i en sluna eller skökia an än en Swensk Man

Swedish nobleman Urban Hiärne decried the ongoing which/witch merger in Swedish, likening any man that merges them to a slut or whore.

As an interesting side note, Urban Hiärne (1641-1726) was from Nyen, Nöteborgs län in easternmost Sweden.

Presumably /dj/ and /ʤ/ contrasted at some point.

Indeed, and analogously stj and tj contrasted from skj and kj, respectively. (As suggested by the fossil that is Elfdalian.)

[Ephraim]

Regarding the loss/vocalization of Oswe /ɣ/ <gh> I cant seem to find any general pattern, there seems to be trend of vocalization adjacent to front vowels and merging with /g/ around back vowels and/or complete loss finally.

we have Oswe høgher = hög, but høghd = höjd, then we also have sæghia = säja, but vægh = väg.

OSw ǥj <ghi> apperantly became j already in the first half of the 14th century. So this is towards the end of the Early Old Swedish period. Later, preceding ē, i and ī opened and shortened to æ.
lēǥja > lēja > læja (leja)
siǥja > sija > sæja (säga)
tøǥja > tøja (töja)
bøǥja > bøja (böja)
høǥja > høja (höja)
(Wessén I p. 66)

This basically reversed an earlier sound change where Pre-OSw *æ (from Early ON *æ end *e) raised to i before ǥj. Early ON sæǥja, OIc segja, is regularly siǥja in Early OSw and I think <sighia> is the form we usually find. The present singular was still sæǥir, however, and the vowel was often analogically restored to the plural (siǥjum > sæǥjum) and infinitive (> sæǥja).

We still have bøǥði and høǥði at this time. The combination ǥð becomes jð after æ and ø "mot slutet av medeltiden i götiska mål, efter hand också i mellansvenska och delvis längre norrut på uppsvenskt område". In GVB, these where written with <g(h)> and still at the end of the 18th cent. <gd> was the most common form in writing (Wessén I p 86).

Edit: Corrected

[Prinsessa]

Didn't know b > t / #_V.

[Aevas]

modern västgötska (besides the icky /ɾɵ/)

Västgötska did have d>r in those environments at least in the early 1900s. Seems odd that it wouldn't be around anymore.

Didn't know b > t / #_V.

Obviously a typo..

[Prinsessa]

modern västgötska (besides the icky /ɾɵ/)

Västgötska did have d>r in those environments at least in the early 1900s. Seems odd that it wouldn't be around anymore.

Pretty sure all of retroflex d (innovation, hypercorrection, I dunno, but it's common), simple d (Gothenburg influence?) and r (traditional and/or capital influence?) occur in different areas these days.

Doesn't make it any less icky in my ears! :D

Didn't know b > t / #_V.

Obviously a typo..

Aren't even emoticons helping to show non-seriousness these days? ;_;
I get a lot of flack for not showing it clearly when I don't use them, but when I do..? ;o;

[Ephraim]

Didn't know b > t / #_V.

It's a sporadic change that seems to have occured mostly when there were two rhyming words that would have worked equally well as examples of another sound change.

[HinGambleGoth]

Ephraim do you have any theory as to why the spelling with <f> and <fv> as in <gaf> or <gifva> was adopted for /v/ when /w/ and /v/ apparently merged already in Old Swedish?

I was listening to a documentary on Finland swedes, and one Ostrobothnian guy spoke a pretty interesting accent without supradentals but with retroflex flap.

[Ephraim]

Ephraim do you have any theory as to why the spelling with <f> and <fv> as in <gaf> or <gifva> was adopted for /v/ when /w/ and /v/ apparently merged already in Old Swedish?

Some OSw text obviously did use <v>/<u> to write all [v]. But I guess at a time when <i>~<j> and <v>~</u> where not distinct letters, writing <f>, <fv> etc. was actually a more unambiguous way of representing the sound. That way, you could distinguish <sif> and <siu>, or <graf> and <grau> (grāu), for example. As voiceless [f] was rare in these positions, distinguishing [f] and [v] was less of a problem. I also think tradition mattered even at a time when spelling was very unstandardized.

[HinGambleGoth]

Where did the widespread infinitive marker "te" come from? it is found all over the swedish speaking area, from Götaland to Finland.

Reduced Oswe til or til at, or perhaps Low german influence?

[Aevas]

I think til was pretty common as an infinitive marker in Old Swedish.

[HinGambleGoth]

Västgötska did have d>r in those environments at least in the early 1900s. Seems odd that it wouldn't be around anymore.]

This shift seems to be ð = r, are there dialects that has this shift in other environments?