Islogian
Re: Islogian
Imaala (the raising of /a a:/) happened pretty early I think. Andalusi Arabic certainly had it. Arabic loans in Turkish often have <e> for /a:/ if that helps. The Eastern half of Saudi, Iraq and all the Gulf dialects always have the backed version. I'm sure there'd be a way to justify it though.
Re: Islogian
Huh. I always figured this was the result of vowel harmonyDavush wrote:Arabic loans in Turkish often have <e> for /a:/ if that helps
Re: Islogian
Actually you may be right - I know little about Turkish but I assumed loanwords like 'medeniyet' from مدنيلت /madaniyya:t/ were due to imala but then there are also things like 'mecaz' from /maja:z/. I'd be interested in learning more about Arabic loans in Turkish (I.e dialect vs fusha and phonological implications).
Re: Islogian
Irregular Nouns
There are a number of nouns with irregular declensions. Below are the ones without dual forms. I'll go into nouns with dual forms later
Arabi (m)- Arab
Baba (m)- Dad/Papa/Pope
Ca (f)- House/Home
Coffré (m)- Brother
Cossůr (f)- Sister
Cuò (n)- Heart
Figlio (m)- Son/Child
Mare (m)- Sea
Ůvo (n)- Egg
There are a number of nouns with irregular declensions. Below are the ones without dual forms. I'll go into nouns with dual forms later
Arabi (m)- Arab
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Last edited by All4Ɇn on 28 Aug 2017 14:54, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Islogian
Dual Forms
15 nouns have their own unique dual forms. Some of these nouns have irregularities besides the presence of the dual. Duals are treated as plural forms with regards to agreement and conjugation
Abbo (m)- Grandfather (Grandparents in the dual)
Anno (m)- Year
Bracio (f)- Arm
Ḑe (m)- Day
Femma (f)- Woman
Gamba (f)- Leg
Genoglio (f)- Knee
Hůmo (m)- Man
Luna (f)- Moon/Month (dual only used for second meaning)
Mano (f)- Hand
Nate (m)- Buttock (butt/buttocks in dual, butts in the plural)
Oglio (f)- Eye
Oreglia (f)- Ear
Páter (m)- Father (Parents in dual)
Piè (f)- Foot
15 nouns have their own unique dual forms. Some of these nouns have irregularities besides the presence of the dual. Duals are treated as plural forms with regards to agreement and conjugation
Abbo (m)- Grandfather (Grandparents in the dual)
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Re: Islogian
I really like this. Especially this type of borrowing. Although, especially now, these people were almost certainly bilingual (otherwise this can't have happened unless the entire speaker population was fully educated) so you need to pay attention to the spoken varieties that influenced it.
Re: Islogian
Will do . Although what exactly makes it necessary for them to have been bilingual?Isfendil wrote:Although, especially now, these people were almost certainly bilingual (otherwise this can't have happened unless the entire speaker population was fully educated) so you need to pay attention to the spoken varieties that influenced it.
Re: Islogian
The borrowing of whole grammatical affixes. Latin didn't have a dual and that dual resembles very much the Arabic dual so I assumed that that is what is going on here. It would make sense for grammaticalized borrowing of that magnitude to occur if the founder population (even if not necessarily the modern population- see Izaafa in persian) is bilingual, because then they're rearranging the languages they speak to be more grammatically similar to each other in their heads over time. I'm oversimplifying, I apologize, but idk how to explain things in other ways.All4Ɇn wrote:Will do . Although what exactly makes it necessary for them to have been bilingual?Isfendil wrote:Although, especially now, these people were almost certainly bilingual (otherwise this can't have happened unless the entire speaker population was fully educated) so you need to pay attention to the spoken varieties that influenced it.
Re: Islogian
Adjectives
Adjectives follow fairly similar declensions to the nouns they modify.
First/Second Declension
The first form listed is the masculine, second feminine, and third neuter.
Albo- White
Third Declension 1
Agile- Agile/Nimble
Third Declension 2
Adjectives with this pattern may have 2 stems: nominative singular and one used for all other forms
Felix- Happy/Nice
Fourth Declension
The first form listed is the masculine, second feminine, and third neuter. All adjectives ending in -i/-ì have this declension.
Pharsi- Persian/Farsi
Invariable
Many adjectives, especially those that are borrowed or refer to colors, are invariable. Some invariable adjectives include Nàranj (orange), Pòrpora (Tyrian purple), and Scic (chic)
Adjectives follow fairly similar declensions to the nouns they modify.
First/Second Declension
The first form listed is the masculine, second feminine, and third neuter.
Albo- White
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Agile- Agile/Nimble
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Adjectives with this pattern may have 2 stems: nominative singular and one used for all other forms
Felix- Happy/Nice
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The first form listed is the masculine, second feminine, and third neuter. All adjectives ending in -i/-ì have this declension.
Pharsi- Persian/Farsi
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Many adjectives, especially those that are borrowed or refer to colors, are invariable. Some invariable adjectives include Nàranj (orange), Pòrpora (Tyrian purple), and Scic (chic)
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 31 Jul 2017 21:55, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Islogian
Irregular Adjectives
Altro- Other
Ambo- Both
Arabi- Arab/Arabian/Arabic
Bachir- Virgin
Bello- Beautiful/Nice
Buò- Good
Gra- Big/Large/Great/Tall
Gri- Grey
Isì- Warm/Nurturing/Motherly/Kind
Laçif- Pretty
Mico- Small/Little
Molto- Much/A Lot/Many
Nuò- New
Reo- Bad/Evil/Wicked
Veglio- Old (of an object)
Vero- True/Real
Altro- Other
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Last edited by All4Ɇn on 28 Aug 2017 05:52, edited 4 times in total.
Re: Islogian
Possessive Suffixes
Rather than use a determiner, Islogian opts instead to show possession through use of suffixes. For those with multiple forms listed, the first form listed is the masculine, second feminine, and third neuter.
First Person Singular
Forms starting with <i> are used after consonants while those starting with <m> are used after vowels
Second Person Singular
Noun forms ending in a voiced consonant make it voiceless before these prefixes
Third Person Singular
Forms starting with <u> are used after consonants while those starting with <s> are used after vowels
First Person Plural
Second Person Plural
Forms starting with <o> are used after consonants while those starting with <v> are used after vowels
Third Person Plural
Forms starting with <o> are used after consonants while those starting with <l> are used after vowels
Examples:
Chitábio- My book
Chitábuo- His books
Chitáptuo- Your book
Cutubii- My books
Cutùpcomii- With my books
Let me know if you guys have any questions about anything so far
Rather than use a determiner, Islogian opts instead to show possession through use of suffixes. For those with multiple forms listed, the first form listed is the masculine, second feminine, and third neuter.
First Person Singular
Forms starting with <i> are used after consonants while those starting with <m> are used after vowels
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Noun forms ending in a voiced consonant make it voiceless before these prefixes
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Forms starting with <u> are used after consonants while those starting with <s> are used after vowels
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Forms starting with <o> are used after consonants while those starting with <v> are used after vowels
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Forms starting with <o> are used after consonants while those starting with <l> are used after vowels
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Chitábio- My book
Chitábuo- His books
Chitáptuo- Your book
Cutubii- My books
Cutùpcomii- With my books
Let me know if you guys have any questions about anything so far
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 20 May 2018 05:32, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Islogian
I am very much loving how this romlang is. Thank you for making it.
Re: Islogian
Thanks so much for saying that . Glad you're liking itIsfendil wrote:I am very much loving how this romlang is. Thank you for making it.
Re: Islogian
Adverbs
For the vast majority of adverbs, the adverb is the same as the nominative masculine singular form of the corresponding adjective. 4 adverbs derived from adjectives have irregular, unique forms:
-The adverbial form of Buò is Bè (Ben before vowels) and means good/well
-The adverbial form of Reo is Malo (Mal before vowels) and means badly/poor
-The adverbial form of Nuò is Nůvo and means newly/recently
-The adverbial form of both Molto and Gra is Gragne (Grand before vowels) and means a lot/much/largely/greatly/heavily
There is also the adverb Mol which is derived from Molto but has the completely separate meaning of "very"
For the vast majority of adverbs, the adverb is the same as the nominative masculine singular form of the corresponding adjective. 4 adverbs derived from adjectives have irregular, unique forms:
-The adverbial form of Buò is Bè (Ben before vowels) and means good/well
-The adverbial form of Reo is Malo (Mal before vowels) and means badly/poor
-The adverbial form of Nuò is Nůvo and means newly/recently
-The adverbial form of both Molto and Gra is Gragne (Grand before vowels) and means a lot/much/largely/greatly/heavily
There is also the adverb Mol which is derived from Molto but has the completely separate meaning of "very"
Re: Islogian
Comparative/Superlative
All regular adjectives/adverbs use the same form for both the comparative and superlative. Its stem formed by adding -ior to the dative/genitive stem of the adjective. Adjectives/adverbs whose stems end in -d/-l/-t instead have the endings -ḑor/-glior/-ţor. The superlative is always preceded by a definite article.
Irregular Comparatives/Superlatives
A number of adjectives and adverbs have irregular comparative and superlative stems. Unlike the rest, these adjectives/adverbs have separate comparatives and superlatives.
Alto- High/Tall
Alçor/Sommo
Basso- Low/Short
Bassior/Imo
Bè- Well
Meio/Òttemo
Buò- Good
Meglior/Òttemo
Deso- Near/Close
Propior/Pròssemo
Eterno- Old (Of Age)
Segnor/Sèssemo
Gra- Big/Large/Great/Grand
Maior/Mássemo
Gragne- A Lot/Much/Largely/Greatly/Heavily
Plus/Plùremo
Iòvene- Young
Iognor/Ionèssemo
Malo- Badly
Peio/Pèssemo
Mico- Small/Little
Meno/Ménemo
Molto- A Lot/Many
Plus/Plùremo
Nuò- New
Novior/Novèssemo
Nůvo- Newly/Recently
Novior/Novèssemo
Reo- Bad
Pér/Pèssemo
All regular adjectives/adverbs use the same form for both the comparative and superlative. Its stem formed by adding -ior to the dative/genitive stem of the adjective. Adjectives/adverbs whose stems end in -d/-l/-t instead have the endings -ḑor/-glior/-ţor. The superlative is always preceded by a definite article.
Irregular Comparatives/Superlatives
A number of adjectives and adverbs have irregular comparative and superlative stems. Unlike the rest, these adjectives/adverbs have separate comparatives and superlatives.
Alto- High/Tall
Alçor/Sommo
Basso- Low/Short
Bassior/Imo
Bè- Well
Meio/Òttemo
Buò- Good
Meglior/Òttemo
Deso- Near/Close
Propior/Pròssemo
Eterno- Old (Of Age)
Segnor/Sèssemo
Gra- Big/Large/Great/Grand
Maior/Mássemo
Gragne- A Lot/Much/Largely/Greatly/Heavily
Plus/Plùremo
Iòvene- Young
Iognor/Ionèssemo
Malo- Badly
Peio/Pèssemo
Mico- Small/Little
Meno/Ménemo
Molto- A Lot/Many
Plus/Plùremo
Nuò- New
Novior/Novèssemo
Nůvo- Newly/Recently
Novior/Novèssemo
Reo- Bad
Pér/Pèssemo
Re: Islogian
How did Latin manage to survive in the Eastern Roman Empire, where is wasn't spoken much outside of political settings and military outposts?
Re: Islogian
The biggest bit of alt-history in the development of Islogian is that Latin replaced Koine Greek in most aspects. There isn't much of an explanation other than that that is simply what happened.Ælfwine wrote:How did Latin manage to survive in the Eastern Roman Empire, where is wasn't spoken much outside of political settings and military outposts?
Re: Islogian
Definite Articles
Unlike other Romance languages, Islogian does not have indefinite articles as nouns that are not definite are presumed indefinite. The definite articles are the only place where neuter nouns are distinct from masculine nouns in the singular.
Now part of me would like to incorporate the sun and moon letters into the pronunciation of the definite article al, although I'm not sure how probable this is even if was derived not directly from Arabic but through its own means but stuck around partially due to Arabic influence. What do you guys think?
Unlike other Romance languages, Islogian does not have indefinite articles as nouns that are not definite are presumed indefinite. The definite articles are the only place where neuter nouns are distinct from masculine nouns in the singular.
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Re: Islogian
Sun and moon is a fairly reasonable phonological process, I don't it'd be too farfetched, but given that there are many different forms of definite article which might hold it due to analogy and al in islogian was a larger particle with romance origins, I am unsure.
Re: Islogian
Yay!All4Ɇn wrote:I've been working on this extensively the past month or so and though I'd share. Islogian was the first major conlang project I ever started. I abandoned it due to disappointment with its outcome. But since my conlanging skills have improved since I decided to go back to it and fix everything I had problems with about it.
I'm quite surprised that multiple people have asked something along the lines of how it's possible for a Romance language to be spoken where Islogian is, given that this is a conlanging/conworlding board. You've responded to those questions better than I would have.
Phonology and orthography stuff:
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The instrumental-comitative case is an interesting addition! Do you have any idea what percentage of nouns in the language are in each declension?All4Ɇn wrote:Regular Noun Declensions
Just to be clear, what forms are each of these?All4Ɇn wrote:Some nouns in this pattern maintain a different stem in the dative/genitive forms:
Tàlbe/Tùlbes
Bàdne
Duccne
Ambre/Umbres
Cabre
I know I said no more questions about the orthography, but I don't see anything about <ů> in this new thread before the first post on irregular nouns. Were these copied from an older thread?All4Ɇn wrote:Cossůr (f)- Sister
Perhaps you meant "suffixes"?All4Ɇn wrote:Rather than use a determiner, Islogian opts instead to show possession through use of prefixes. For those with multiple forms listed, the first form listed is the masculine, second feminine, and third neuter.
Wait, so, once -ior is added to the adjective's dative/genitive stem, how are regular comparatives and superlatives formed?All4Ɇn wrote:All regular adjectives/adverbs use the same form for both the comparative and superlative. Its stem formed by adding -ior to the dative/genitive stem of the adjective. Adjectives/adverbs whose stems end in -d/-l/-t instead have the endings -ḑor/-glior/-ţor. The superlative is always preceded by a definite article.
It would be cool, but I don't know how realistic it is.All4Ɇn wrote:Now part of me would like to incorporate the sun and moon letters into the pronunciation of the definite article al, although I'm not sure how probable this is even if was derived not directly from Arabic but through its own means but stuck around partially due to Arabic influence. What do you guys think?
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