peto - a new minimalistic language which is a reform of puna

[arpee]

language - A system of words used to name things in a particular discipline.

So even if the language has 20 words, it is still a language. If the language only has one word then it's just a sound because it's not a system of words for naming things. Peto IS a language because it is a system of words for naming things, even if it is just 18 words and a few markers.

Sure. Peto is a language, just like eep opp ork ah ah is a language.

If "eep", "opp", "ork" and "ah" are words, then yeah it would be...

[MrKrov]

Then can we expect a 4 word "language" next month?

[Ossicone]

Can those four words be 'feck, arse, drink, girl?' :-D

[T.H.]

Can those four words be 'feck, arse, drink, girl?' :-D

Best. Language. Ever.

[Thakowsaizmu]

Feck arse, drink girl. Girl. Feck girl. Drink arse, arse drink.

[Thakowsaizmu]

language - A system of words used to name things in a particular discipline.

So even if the language has 20 words, it is still a language. If the language only has one word then it's just a sound because it's not a system of words for naming things. Peto IS a language because it is a system of words for naming things, even if it is just 18 words and a few markers.

Sure. Peto is a language, just like eep opp ork ah ah is a language.

If "eep", "opp", "ork" and "ah" are words, then yeah it would be...

They are words...

[Trailsend]

pera ne tara me wa pera ne pete me wa ra no ya

ne kene wa mo yo ya. papete ne kote wa mo yo ya

papete wa ne nokote no ya

no wa te wa pe ya

pera ne tara me wa pera ne pete me wa ra no ya
good_bring toward other_bring person TOPIC good_bring toward good_time person TOPIC bring not END_STATEMENT
Did you pick up a gift for Aunt Sarah and Cousin Beth?

Wait...what? I need you to walk me through this.

I'm going to guess that the "ra no ya" at the end makes this into a question. That's well and good.

Is "pera ne tara me wa" supposed to represent...a gift?

Why have you glazed over the people that the gift is for? Suppose the reason these people are having this conversation is that they're trying to make sure they've gotten presents for everyone who will be at the Christmas party. It is not sufficient to say "bring-good to other-bring person did you?" because the whole point of the question is to ask about a particular person as opposed to other particular people.

You cannot always be general if your goal is to be able to handle "any conversation." If you cannot be specific, then you cannot handle this conversation about making sure the different people at the Christmas party will all have a gift.

This also does not address the problem that we have brought up with you every other time you have posted a project like this.

If you say to me:

pera ne tara me wa pera ne pete me wa ra no ya

How do I figure out whether you are asking

good_bring toward other_bring person TOPIC good_bring toward good_time person TOPIC bring not END_STATEMENT
Did you pick up a gift for Aunt Sarah and Cousin Beth?

or

heal_bring for other_bring health TOPIC improve_bring to good_time person TOPIC bring not END_STATEMENT
Has the medicine made you feel better yet?

or

easy_hold interior different_hold animal TOPIC assistance-bring on advantage_moment TOPIC contain not END_STATEMENT
Did the dog kennel have anything in it at the opportune moment?

If we're supposed to be able to have any conversation we please in this language, then you have to be able to figure out which conversation I'm having so that you can respond appropriately. How do you do this?

[arpee]

tara me = sarah (who is a ) person
pete me = peter (who is a) person

[Thakowsaizmu]

tara me = sarah (who is a ) person
pete me = peter (who is a) person

Sorry... what?

[Xing]

language - A system of words used to name things in a particular discipline.

So even if the language has 20 words, it is still a language. If the language only has one word then it's just a sound because it's not a system of words for naming things. Peto IS a language because it is a system of words for naming things, even if it is just 18 words and a few markers.

Even a with a few words or sounds (like my "eo" or "ieaou" "languages") could serve some communicative purposes. Of course very limited one; much more limited than a language with twenty sounds. But then the communicative purposes that can be served by a 20 word-language is very limited compared to the communicative capacities of those sound systems we ordinarily refer to as languages.

[Micamo]

Rerrerererrer?

[Ceresz]

I can't believe people are still commenting on this... .

Arpee, I'm afraid that you've already failed. This language is probably harder to learn than any natlang out there, and if I'm not mistaking you wanted it to be easy to learn, so why would people bother learning this?

This is just ridiculous. Sorry.

[Ear of the Sphinx]

tara me = sarah (who is a ) person
pete me = peter (who is a) person

Sorry... what?

Name marker?

Then can we expect a 4 word "language" next month?

I read that in Polish language only four words will be needed for communication. They're of course vulgarisms.

Alright, I have the most minimal language ever!

A a a A A A...
Already done on Polish Conlanger Forum...

[Chandith]

Are you people too stupid to recognise a troll when it hits you in the face?

[Micamo]

I dunno, I've gotten way weirder things than this to work well. I think it's worth giving an honest chance considering:

Much of what we use in conversation relies on causal dependency. For example, "Have you taken the steaks out the freezer yet?" WHY is the speaker asking this question? Because if the steaks aren't out the freezer then they won't thaw in time for dinner then the speaker'll have to go hungry and the speaker doesn't want to have to go hungry. The speaker can get the same information by changing the point of inquiry to any other point in the chain, e.g., the speaker can ask "Will I have to go hungry tonight?" or even "Will something happen that I don't want?" Of course, getting a reliable answer here requires the listener have the same causal chain in mind as the speaker, moreso as the question becomes more vague. Which is why we don't actually speak this way.

A minimalist-ish language that handles specific things by "causally fronting" them until they only reach general concepts is at least an interesting idea.

[eldin raigmore]

language - A system of words used to name things in a particular discipline.
So even if the language has 20 words, it is still a language. If the language only has one word then it's just a sound because it's not a system of words for naming things. Peto IS a language because it is a system of words for naming things, even if it is just 18 words and a few markers.

That may be true; nevertheless, all real-life "languages", by that definition, have at least 30,000-50,000 lexical items. Experts in any particular discipline need 30,000-50,000 discipline-specific lexemes; and between 3,000-5,000 of them will be in daily use by workers in that field, even those who aren't experts.

Technically, by definition, a language is a system of communication. If you can't communicate effectively in it, then it's just a bunch of words that follow a certain pattern.

What T.H. said.


I am not telling Arpee that Peto isn't a language. I'm saying that two people couldn't hold a general average conversation in it, as it stands now.

Take a look at one-or-more radical-and-determiner logographic writing systems.
Look at how many radicals they have.
A natural language probably has about that many general types of words, at close to minimum.

_______________________________________________________________________________


@Arpee, if anyone ever achieves the design goals you've said you're attempting, it will be interesting.
But probably you should first start with goals that more than one other conlang has actually achieved.

So far all your conlangs attempt to achieve design goals that have so far proven nearly unattainable for almost all conlangers.

I count so far:

• All-concrete-noun conlang (I predict you will not succeed)
• Logical conlang (I predict your attempt will be one of the many failures rather than one of the few successes)
• An unreasonably minimal conlang in which you couldn't even play "20 Questions".

Maybe I've missed something. But I think that Nofi and Tika and Puna and Peto all fit in the above list, don't they? Or did I indeed miss something?

You should first try - and succeed - to make some conlang(s) satisfying a more modest set of design goals.

Once you've proven you can do that, take on one of these never-before-achieved-by-anybody design-goals and go for it.

If I decide I want more exercise so I'm going to use the stairs instead of the elevators, I won't start on the Burj Khalifa in Dubai, much less on K2 in the Himalayas.

[Thakowsaizmu]

Are you people too stupid to recognise a troll when it hits you in the face?

The problemme is, arpee is not a troll, he's just a clown.

[Ear of the Sphinx]

Unvoluntary annoyance should be forgiven.

[arpee]

The only problem with that is, no one is willing to learn a conlang with so many words. It's already a struggle to get them to learn a natural one, so if a conlang is going to thrive it'll have to have as few words as possible.

I wouldn't even want to learn my own conlang if it have many words. The less memorization the better.

If you wanted to say " did you take the stake out of the refrigerator", you can simplify it to something like

"organism for eating, take out of cold place?"
me ne pa yo none norone wa ranone no ya.

[Sankon]

me ne pa yo none norone wa ranone no ya.
Did you take his mouth out of cryostasis?

And also, plenty of people want to learn/have learned Esperanto, Klingon, Quenya, Sindarin, and all of them have "so many words".