"already"
Re: "already"
German
Hast du schon gegessen?
[ˈhast duː ʃɔn gəˈgɛsn̩↗]
AUX.PST.2SG 2SG.NOM already eat.PP
Have you already eaten?
Ich habe ihn bereits gesehen.
[ʔɪç ˈhabə ˈʔiːn bəˈʁaɪ̯ts gəˈseːən]
1SG.NOM AUX.PST.1SG 3SG.MASC.ACC already see.PP
I already saw him.
Ist er schon da, wenn wir kommen?
[ʔɪst ʔɛɐ̯ ʃɔn da, vən viɐ̯ ˈkʰɔmən↗]
COP.3SG 3SG.MASC.NOM already there, when 1PL.NOM come.1PL
Will he already be there when we arrive?
Sie ist bereits zuhause.
[ziː ʔɪst bəˈʁaɪ̯ts t͡suˈhaʊ̯zə]
3SG.FEM.NOM COP.3SG already at_home
She is already at home.
"Schon" and "bereits" are synonymous and could be used interchangably in each of the four sentences, where "schon" is more common. (They are not interchangable if "schon" is not a temporal adverb, but a particle!)
Hast du schon gegessen?
[ˈhast duː ʃɔn gəˈgɛsn̩↗]
AUX.PST.2SG 2SG.NOM already eat.PP
Have you already eaten?
Ich habe ihn bereits gesehen.
[ʔɪç ˈhabə ˈʔiːn bəˈʁaɪ̯ts gəˈseːən]
1SG.NOM AUX.PST.1SG 3SG.MASC.ACC already see.PP
I already saw him.
Ist er schon da, wenn wir kommen?
[ʔɪst ʔɛɐ̯ ʃɔn da, vən viɐ̯ ˈkʰɔmən↗]
COP.3SG 3SG.MASC.NOM already there, when 1PL.NOM come.1PL
Will he already be there when we arrive?
Sie ist bereits zuhause.
[ziː ʔɪst bəˈʁaɪ̯ts t͡suˈhaʊ̯zə]
3SG.FEM.NOM COP.3SG already at_home
She is already at home.
"Schon" and "bereits" are synonymous and could be used interchangably in each of the four sentences, where "schon" is more common. (They are not interchangable if "schon" is not a temporal adverb, but a particle!)
Edit: Pronouncing "schon" as [ʃɔn] is relatively common. The duden, however, recommends [ʃoːn].
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: "already"
Géarthnuns
Öçek lö stévü höglozh?
2SG-NOM AUX.PRESPRF already eat-INTERR
Have you already eaten?
Sí lé söböt zövla tel.
1SG-NOM AUX.PRES 3SG-ACC already see
I already saw him.
Söb lí, shtanö trízh lí sítöz sho, cha helkedínsav zövla hömal?
3SG-NOM AUX.FUT, when 1DUAL-NOM AUX.FUT arrive PTCL, DEF there-LOC already be.at-INTERR
Will he already be there when we arrive?
San la chö béöbsöv zövla mal.
3SG-NOM AUX,PRES DEF home-LOC already be.at
She is already at home.
("zövla" is used with non-perfect tenses, "stévü" with perfect tenses)
Öçek lö stévü höglozh?
2SG-NOM AUX.PRESPRF already eat-INTERR
Have you already eaten?
Sí lé söböt zövla tel.
1SG-NOM AUX.PRES 3SG-ACC already see
I already saw him.
Söb lí, shtanö trízh lí sítöz sho, cha helkedínsav zövla hömal?
3SG-NOM AUX.FUT, when 1DUAL-NOM AUX.FUT arrive PTCL, DEF there-LOC already be.at-INTERR
Will he already be there when we arrive?
San la chö béöbsöv zövla mal.
3SG-NOM AUX,PRES DEF home-LOC already be.at
She is already at home.
("zövla" is used with non-perfect tenses, "stévü" with perfect tenses)
☯ 道可道,非常道
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☯ 名可名,非常名
Re: "already"
French
Tu as déjà mangé?
[tyˈa deˈʒa mɑ̃ˈʒeː]
2SG AUX.PST.2SG already eat.PP
Have you already eaten?
Je l'ai déjà vu.
[ʒəˈlɛ deˈʒa vy]
1SG.NOM 3SG.MASC.OBL=AUX.PST.1SG already
I already saw him.
Est-ce que nous serons déjà là-bas quand il arrive?
[ˈɛskə nusəˈrɔ̃ laˈba deˈʒa kãdɪlaˈriv]
POL 1PL COP.FUT.1PL already there when 3SG.MASC arrive.3SG
Will we already be there when he arrives?
Elle est déjà à la maison / chez soi.
[ˈɛlɛ deˈʒa alamɛˈzɔ̃ / ʃeˈswa]
3SG.FEM COP.3SG already at DEF.FEM house
She is already at home.
Tu as déjà mangé?
[tyˈa deˈʒa mɑ̃ˈʒeː]
2SG AUX.PST.2SG already eat.PP
Have you already eaten?
Je l'ai déjà vu.
[ʒəˈlɛ deˈʒa vy]
1SG.NOM 3SG.MASC.OBL=AUX.PST.1SG already
I already saw him.
Est-ce que nous serons déjà là-bas quand il arrive?
[ˈɛskə nusəˈrɔ̃ laˈba deˈʒa kãdɪlaˈriv]
POL 1PL COP.FUT.1PL already there when 3SG.MASC arrive.3SG
Will we already be there when he arrives?
Elle est déjà à la maison / chez soi.
[ˈɛlɛ deˈʒa alamɛˈzɔ̃ / ʃeˈswa]
3SG.FEM COP.3SG already at DEF.FEM house
She is already at home.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
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Re: "already"
Do you use bereits in spoken language? I actually have never heard it in spoken language."Schon" and "bereits" are synonymous and could be used interchangably in each of the four sentences, where "schon" is more common. (They are not interchangable if "schon" is not a temporal adverb, but a particle!)
Edit: Pronouncing "schon" as [ʃɔn] is relatively common. The duden, however, recommends [ʃoːn].
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: "already"
Yélian
Barcai adésmuyei?
[baɾkaɪ̯ aˌdesˈmuʃɛɪ̯]
ask-1SG already-eat-2SG
Have you already eaten?
Tem adésvalai.
[təm aˌdesˈvaːlaɪ̯]
3SG.MASC.OBL already-see-1SG
I already saw him.
Barcai roadésbail atonúm desíy te roceret?
[ˈbaɾkaɪ̯ ro.aˈdeːsbaɪ̯l ˌatɔˈnuːm deˈsa̯iː tə rɔˈkɛɾɛt]
ask-1SG FUT-already-COP.1PLIN there when 3SG.MASC FUT-arrive-3SG
Will we already be there when he arrives?
Ta adésbit iutpilat.
[ta aˈdesbɪt ɪ̯ʊ̆ˈpilɐt]
3SG.FEM already-COP.3SG.ANIM at_home
She is already at home.
"Könnten Sie sich dann noch um die Files kümmern?" - "Das hab ich bereits erledigt."
"Man müsste mal ein Programm entwickeln, dass (...) - "Soweit ich weiß, wurde das bereits gemacht!"
Barcai adésmuyei?
[baɾkaɪ̯ aˌdesˈmuʃɛɪ̯]
ask-1SG already-eat-2SG
Have you already eaten?
Tem adésvalai.
[təm aˌdesˈvaːlaɪ̯]
3SG.MASC.OBL already-see-1SG
I already saw him.
Barcai roadésbail atonúm desíy te roceret?
[ˈbaɾkaɪ̯ ro.aˈdeːsbaɪ̯l ˌatɔˈnuːm deˈsa̯iː tə rɔˈkɛɾɛt]
ask-1SG FUT-already-COP.1PLIN there when 3SG.MASC FUT-arrive-3SG
Will we already be there when he arrives?
Ta adésbit iutpilat.
[ta aˈdesbɪt ɪ̯ʊ̆ˈpilɐt]
3SG.FEM already-COP.3SG.ANIM at_home
She is already at home.
Much more rarely than "schon", but yes. Mainly in a context when the outcome has not been expected to be already done.Creyeditor wrote:Do you use bereits in spoken language? I actually have never heard it in spoken language.
"Könnten Sie sich dann noch um die Files kümmern?" - "Das hab ich bereits erledigt."
"Man müsste mal ein Programm entwickeln, dass (...) - "Soweit ich weiß, wurde das bereits gemacht!"
Spoiler:
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: "already"
I'll let Dormouse address the nuances, if any, but for me:
Est-ce que nous serons déjà là quand il arrivera?
Will we already be there when he arrives?
(But also, to me, this feels like a strange grammar book sentence bereft of context.)
M. Le Loir, qu'est-ce que vous en pensez?
For me, "là-bas" has the notion of "over there", where I think a simple "là" would do. More importantly, while English uses the present tense in that subordinate clause ("when he arrives"), French (and I would imagine the other Romance langs) use the future:Iyionaku wrote: French
Est-ce que nous serons déjà là-bas quand il arrive?
Will we already be there when he arrives?
Est-ce que nous serons déjà là quand il arrivera?
Will we already be there when he arrives?
(But also, to me, this feels like a strange grammar book sentence bereft of context.)
For me, "chez soi" has got to go. Maybe "chez elle" in a pinch; "à la maison" is fine.Elle est déjà à la maison / chez soi.
M. Le Loir, qu'est-ce que vous en pensez?
☯ 道可道,非常道
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☯ 名可名,非常名
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Re: "already"
Qui ? Moi ? Je suis totalement d'accord avec vous.Lao Kou wrote:M. Le Loir, qu'est-ce que vous en pensez?
Both of Lao Kou's corrections were spot on. It looks like you accidentally got the subjects switched, so a translation of the OP would be:Iyionaku wrote: French
Est-ce que nous serons déjà là-bas quand il arrive?
Will we already be there when he arrives?
Est-ce qu'il sera déjà là quand nous arriverons ?
Will he already be there when we arrive?
A note on pronunciation: When final <d> is pronounced in liaison, it is pronounced /t/, so "quand il" should be /kɑ̃til/.
Agree that "chez soi" is a no-no. "Soi" is mostly used as a generic pronoun, like a reflexive version of "on", so "chez soi" means "at one's house".Lao Kou wrote:For me, "chez soi" has got to go. Maybe "chez elle" in a pinch; "à la maison" is fine.Elle est déjà à la maison / chez soi.
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Re: "already"
Tirina
The adverb kel "already" could be used in all of these, but I think the adverb idar "previously" would actually work in many as well. (although it specifically would have the sense of a recent occurrence, and maybe would be better translated as "recently")
Nadohiperasda kel?
FEM-INTERR-eat-PST already
Have you already eaten?
Anewo'orda kel yes.
FEM-see-PST already 3SG.MASC
I already saw him.
Sar todohideyire kel ye hin anasinasmir?
CNSQ MASC-INTERR-be.located-FUT already 3SG.MASC COND FEM-arrive-PL
Will he already be there when we arrive?
Kel ha wol letakan.
already 3SG.FEM at.location.of house
She is already at home.
The adverb kel "already" could be used in all of these, but I think the adverb idar "previously" would actually work in many as well. (although it specifically would have the sense of a recent occurrence, and maybe would be better translated as "recently")
Nadohiperasda kel?
FEM-INTERR-eat-PST already
Have you already eaten?
Anewo'orda kel yes.
FEM-see-PST already 3SG.MASC
I already saw him.
Sar todohideyire kel ye hin anasinasmir?
CNSQ MASC-INTERR-be.located-FUT already 3SG.MASC COND FEM-arrive-PL
Will he already be there when we arrive?
Kel ha wol letakan.
already 3SG.FEM at.location.of house
She is already at home.
Re: "already"
Dormouse559, are you french?
Deyryck
Already is mostly translated by suffixing "hô".
Vèdlahô dan
[vɛdlahɔ dan]
eat+already INTERR
Have you already eaten?
Ro fiohô da
[ro fiohɔ da]
3.SG see+already DECLAR
I already saw him.
Déha ni rohô dan
[deha ni rohɔ dan]
arrive MOMENT 3.SG+already INTERR
Will he already be there when we arrive?
Radaj'hô da
[radaʒhɔ da]
3.SG.FEM+home+already DECLAR
She is already at home.
Deyryck
Already is mostly translated by suffixing "hô".
Vèdlahô dan
[vɛdlahɔ dan]
eat+already INTERR
Have you already eaten?
Ro fiohô da
[ro fiohɔ da]
3.SG see+already DECLAR
I already saw him.
Déha ni rohô dan
[deha ni rohɔ dan]
arrive MOMENT 3.SG+already INTERR
Will he already be there when we arrive?
Radaj'hô da
[radaʒhɔ da]
3.SG.FEM+home+already DECLAR
She is already at home.
- Dormouse559
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Re: "already"
No, American. [Insert words here to make this not a two-word post.]Threr wrote:Dormouse559, are you french?
Re: "already"
Wena:
The simplest way Wena does it is to simply stress the time by placing it in a adverbial phrase.
Note that while zi marks the perfect aspect, this is not about its resultative relevance to the current state but simply just a kind of relative past (in the past of the contextually understood point in time, often the moment of speaking), which I undestand is also simply to be glossed as PRF
Ha wa i mo u zi?
Q 2s COP consume.AG ADV PRF.E
Have you already eaten?
Na i vwe zyi u zi.
Q COP see.AG GEN.DEF.E ADV PRF.E
I already saw him.
U wana i lilu do ha de i lu o nye?
ADV 1+2 COP arrive.AG TOP Q DEF.E COP LOC.E ADV PROG.E
Will he already/still be there when we arrive?
De i lu mba u nye.
DEF.E COP LOC.E house ADV PROG.E
She is already/still at home.
The last ones with nye basically just mean "at that/this moment" and do not specify if it's earlier (already) or later (still) than expected. If, for some reason, context is not enough and this needs to be specified, you can change nye to zi and swap lu (entity which is located somewhere, ie. "be at") with lilu (entity which begins to be located somewhere, ie. "arrive").
U wana i lilu do ha de i lilu o zi?
ADV 1+2 COP arrive.AG TOP Q DEF.E COP arrive.AG ADV PRF.E
Will he already have arrived when we arrive?
De i lilu mba u zi.
DEF.E COP arrive.AG house ADV PRF.E
She has already arrived at home.
The simplest way Wena does it is to simply stress the time by placing it in a adverbial phrase.
Note that while zi marks the perfect aspect, this is not about its resultative relevance to the current state but simply just a kind of relative past (in the past of the contextually understood point in time, often the moment of speaking), which I undestand is also simply to be glossed as PRF
Ha wa i mo u zi?
Q 2s COP consume.AG ADV PRF.E
Have you already eaten?
Na i vwe zyi u zi.
Q COP see.AG GEN.DEF.E ADV PRF.E
I already saw him.
U wana i lilu do ha de i lu o nye?
ADV 1+2 COP arrive.AG TOP Q DEF.E COP LOC.E ADV PROG.E
Will he already/still be there when we arrive?
De i lu mba u nye.
DEF.E COP LOC.E house ADV PROG.E
She is already/still at home.
The last ones with nye basically just mean "at that/this moment" and do not specify if it's earlier (already) or later (still) than expected. If, for some reason, context is not enough and this needs to be specified, you can change nye to zi and swap lu (entity which is located somewhere, ie. "be at") with lilu (entity which begins to be located somewhere, ie. "arrive").
U wana i lilu do ha de i lilu o zi?
ADV 1+2 COP arrive.AG TOP Q DEF.E COP arrive.AG ADV PRF.E
Will he already have arrived when we arrive?
De i lilu mba u zi.
DEF.E COP arrive.AG house ADV PRF.E
She has already arrived at home.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: "already"
Project Mimal (Random vocab as of yet - random words in italics)
to jel, nem bin reku kapen.
/ to̥ jeɫ, nem bin ɾekɯ̥ kæ̥pen /
before now, 3SG 1SG ᴘʀᴇ.ᴘᴇʀғ.ғʀᴇ sight
Lit. before now, the he, I have for certain done a sight to.
Before now, I have seen him.
la jolten, ruŋ.
/ læ joɫten, ɾɯŋ /
ʟᴏᴄ ᴅᴇғ house, 3SG
Lit. at the house, she exists
She is at the house.
to jel, nem bin reku kapen.
/ to̥ jeɫ, nem bin ɾekɯ̥ kæ̥pen /
before now, 3SG 1SG ᴘʀᴇ.ᴘᴇʀғ.ғʀᴇ sight
Lit. before now, the he, I have for certain done a sight to.
Before now, I have seen him.
la jolten, ruŋ.
/ læ joɫten, ɾɯŋ /
ʟᴏᴄ ᴅᴇғ house, 3SG
Lit. at the house, she exists
She is at the house.
Re: "already"
Thrinn
Haft þu tiðð eter?
Have you already eaten?
Ig sa hina tiðð.
I already saw him
Vird hir tiðð þar vesen, near furkomem vir?]
Will he already be there when we arrive?
He ist tiðð furrem huse
She is already at home
Haft þu tiðð eter?
Have you already eaten?
Ig sa hina tiðð.
I already saw him
Vird hir tiðð þar vesen, near furkomem vir?]
Will he already be there when we arrive?
He ist tiðð furrem huse
She is already at home
Re: "already"
Can't the future perfect be used here as well?Dormouse559 wrote:Est-ce qu'il sera déjà là quand nous arriverons ?
Will he already be there when we arrive?
Est-ce qu'il sera déjà là quand nous serons arrivés ?
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Re: "already"
I'm not certain. The complicating factor is "déjà", since it's supposed to express anteriority, but so is the future perfect. Otherwise, yes, the future perfect is possible.
Re: "already"
Italian
Hai già mangiato?
/(ʔ)ai̯ dʒa man'dʒaːto/
have.2sg already eat.past_part
Have you already eaten?
L'ho già visto.
/lɔ dʒa 'vi.sto/
him+have.1sg already see.past_part
I already saw him. (wouldn't it be "I have already seen him"?)
Sarà già lì quando arriviamo? (arriveremo, in the future, is also possible, but less colloquial, and sounds a bit weird to me)
/sa'ra dʒa li 'kwan.do arːi'vjaːmo/
be.fut.3sg already there when arrive.1pl
Will he already be there when we arrive?
È già a casa.
/ε dʒa a kaːza/
be.3sg already at home
She is already at home.
Hai già mangiato?
/(ʔ)ai̯ dʒa man'dʒaːto/
have.2sg already eat.past_part
Have you already eaten?
L'ho già visto.
/lɔ dʒa 'vi.sto/
him+have.1sg already see.past_part
I already saw him. (wouldn't it be "I have already seen him"?)
Sarà già lì quando arriviamo? (arriveremo, in the future, is also possible, but less colloquial, and sounds a bit weird to me)
/sa'ra dʒa li 'kwan.do arːi'vjaːmo/
be.fut.3sg already there when arrive.1pl
Will he already be there when we arrive?
È già a casa.
/ε dʒa a kaːza/
be.3sg already at home
She is already at home.
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Re: "already"
Normally, yes. But context is all important here ("I already saw him," is perfectly fine in context). There are times when present perfect vs. simple past is very clear-cut (grammatically right/wrong) and others where it's simply a matter of how the speaker interprets the moment (cf. natromlangs' imperfect vs. simple past -- you can explain to heretofore monolingual English-speaking teens "snapshots" vs. "running film" until the cows come home, but sometimes it just takes prolonged exposure before it "clicks" -- times where a choice sounds grammatically hinky and others where the choice is, grammatically ambivalent, about how you interpret the action in context); and then French and Italian (and German, beside the point) just go ahead and conflate present perfect and past ).Alessio wrote:(wouldn't it be "I have already seen him"?)
My guess is that it's this very weirdness of "already" in various contexts that OP was honing in on. To a limited extent, we've seen natlangs grappling with this in this thread (French future perfect? I asked this of myself, and decided 'no'.) (context), so asking how conlangs handle it (tense/aspect) seems a legit question.Sarà già lì quando arriviamo? (arriveremo, in the future, is also possible, but less colloquial, and sounds a bit weird to me)
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☯ 名可名,非常名
Re: "already"
'I already saw him' sounds American to my ears. I think in British English, 'already' is used with the perfect most of the time. I would always say 'I've already seen him'.Lao Kou wrote:Normally, yes. But context is all important here ("I already saw him," is perfectly fine in context). There are times when present perfect vs. simple past is very clear-cut (grammatically right/wrong) and others where it's simply a matter of how the speaker interprets the moment.Alessio wrote:(wouldn't it be "I have already seen him"?)
Gulf Arabic
Gulf Arabic (and other dialects) don't have an easy way to express 'already'. In fact, I have heard many Kuwaitis say /ɔ:ɾæddi/ (borrowed from the English) a lot of the time.
Have you already eaten?
inta mākil?
I've already seen him.
āna shiftah (min gaḅǝḷ)
Will he already be there when we arrive?
byikūn ihnāk limma nōṣil?
She is already at home
ihya fil bēt (aṣlan)
None of the above use a word which corresponds to 'already'. Min gabǝl (literally: from before) would mean more like 'I've seen him before'. You could add adverbs like aṣlan (lit: actually) which give a kind of 'already' meaning, but I feel like the most natural way is to just say them without it.
Re: "already"
It's similar in Spanish as well, where the Americas prefers using the preterite, where the Europeans would use the perfect.Davush wrote:'I already saw him' sounds American to my ears. I think in British English, 'already' is used with the perfect most of the time. I would always say 'I've already seen him'.Lao Kou wrote:Normally, yes. But context is all important here ("I already saw him," is perfectly fine in context). There are times when present perfect vs. simple past is very clear-cut (grammatically right/wrong) and others where it's simply a matter of how the speaker interprets the moment.Alessio wrote:(wouldn't it be "I have already seen him"?)
Gulf Arabic
Gulf Arabic (and other dialects) don't have an easy way to express 'already'. In fact, I have heard many Kuwaitis say /ɔ:ɾæddi/ (borrowed from the English) a lot of the time.
Have you already eaten?
inta mākil?
I've already seen him.
āna shiftah (min gaḅǝḷ)
Will he already be there when we arrive?
byikūn ihnāk limma nōṣil?
She is already at home
ihya fil bēt (aṣlan)
None of the above use a word which corresponds to 'already'. Min gabǝl (literally: from before) would mean more like 'I've seen him before'. You could add adverbs like aṣlan (lit: actually) which give a kind of 'already' meaning, but I feel like the most natural way is to just say them without it.
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