Analysis Swap: Hiding Waters

[Trailsend]

This thread is for people doing an analysis swap with Hiding Waters!

I'll be playing the part of a "lay" speaker—that is, someone who speaks the language but has no linguistic training. I'll be able to tell you how to say things in different situations, maybe give intuitive explanations of how I think about why you say something, but won't be able to give you any technical analysis. (And my explanations might not actually hold up to scrutiny, just like happens with fluent speakers of natural languages.)

Some useful setting to know: Hiding Waters is spoken in a coastal temperate rain forest, somewhat Pacific-Northwest-y. Its speakers are non-industrial; it won't have words for "airplane" or "cell phone", for example.

Some notation conventions I'll use: I'll number any sentences I give, to make it easier for folks to reference specific sentences. If it would help, feel free to ask whether you could say a particular sentence; if you can, I'll repost it with a number. If you can't, I'll number it but mark it with an asterisk to show it's ungrammatical. For example,

1) This sentence is grammatical.

2*) This sentence not is grammatical.

[Arayaz]

Ok! And also, I love the Pacific Northwest so much, and so I'm very happy to see that this lang is in my favorite environment

I assume the speaker we're communicating with speaks English?

I walk up to the native Hiding Waters speaker and say, "Hello!" After some introductions, I ask how I would have conducted that same greeting and introduction in Hiding Waters.

[Trailsend]

I assume the speaker we're communicating with speaks English?

Let's say yes. Figuring out language from someone without using a common language at all is very fun, but it's its own kind of challenge :P

Let's say you've come to my home to have this conversation.

You would say,

1) Ṇixkịr.

And I would say back:

2) Hïnuxkụr.

[Trailsend]

(Visions, I saw you posted some questions, but it looks like you removed them—do you still want me to answer them?)

[Arayaz]

I assume the speaker we're communicating with speaks English?

Let's say yes. Figuring out language from someone without using a common language at all is very fun, but it's its own kind of challenge :P

Let's say you've come to my home to have this conversation.

You would say,

1) Ṇixkịr.

And I would say back:

2) Hïnuxkụr.

"So what would happen," I ask, "if we were holding the conversation at my house? Would I say to you ṇixkịr, and you back to me hïnuxkụr?" I take a sip of water. "And how, may I ask, would I ask your name in Hiding Waters?"

[Trailsend]

Ah, I forgot the introductions part!

You could say:

3) Arayaz ṇisïwhlhjịstẹ.

(When you introduced yourself, did you say where you were from?)

And I would say back:

4) Trailsend ṇusu̇whlhjụstẹ.

5) Hị́sulsixlwhisnwhị́q ṇulhsnịjusịlh.

That's here, Hị́sulsixlwhisnwhị́q.

"So what would happen," I ask, "if we were holding the conversation at my house? Would I say to you ṇixkịr, and you back to me hïnuxkụr?"

Oh, no. Then I would say "ṇixkịr" and you would say "hïnuxkụr", because there

6) hïnȯxkụrjụ́.

"And how, may I ask, would I ask your name in Hiding Waters?"

You would say:

7) Ṇisïwhlhkịstẹ hí?

Or if I went to your place you would say

8) Ṇusu̇whlhkụstẹ hí?

[Arayaz]

"Ah, so I could say ..." I pause, thinking. "New Orleans ṇilhsnịjusịlh? And how would I ask you where you're from ─ ṇilhsnịjusịlh hí? And is there a whole different way of speaking that one has in another's home?" I ask. "And if so, am I getting it right by changing the words like I did?"

[Trailsend]

I toss my head back as you talk; you get the sense it's a happy gesture.

Not quite!

9a*) New Orleans ṇilhsnịjusịlh.

You could say:

9b) New Orleans ṇilhṇịjisịlh.

You could also say

9c) New Orleans ṇilhsnịjisịlh.

...but that sounds a little like New Orleans is another name for the place I just told you about, and that you also live here. If you said:

9d) New Orleans hï ṇilhsnịjisịlh.

then I would know you meant a different place. Is New Orleans by a river, or a lake? Or the sea? If it isn't, New Orleans hï ṇilhsnịjisịlh would be a strange thing to say, New Orleans ṇilhṇịjisịlh is better. We say ṇulhsnịsịlh here because of the waterfall.

(You couldn't have missed the sound of the falls as you entered the town, they are enormous. A great river pours over cliffs into the sea.)

And how would I ask you where you're from ─ ṇilhsnịjusịlh hí?

Close!

10a*) Ṇilhsnịjusịlh hí?

You would say:

10b) Ṇilhkxịkisịlh hí?

Or I could ask you:

10c) Ṇulhkxụkusịlh hí?

And is there a whole different way of speaking that one has in another's home?" I ask.

Hmm...I suppose. Usually, at least. But I would always ị́nȯxstẹ to an elder, even when they came to visit me in my home. Or if we went outside, you should still ị́nȯxste to me. But I would ị́nȯxste to you if we went to New Orleans.

"And if so, am I getting it right by changing the words like I did?"

Mostly! You learn very fast!

[Visions1]

This is just linguistics rp. Lol. I'm for it.

Hello, I'm sorry I'm late. I was held up.
Anything I missed?

[Trailsend]

Sure is :P It doesn't have to be, or at least, not this much. We could skip the pretense that we're actually in Hiding Waters doing this fieldwork, but I think that would actually make it harder (and also not as fun :P ).

[Kesshin]

We say ṇulhsnịsịlh here because of the waterfall.

Another person comes up, as if they were in the conversation since the beginning. "Being near water changes the form? Is there a form for being in or on water, like if we were talking about Atlantis?"

[Visions1]

Or a boat? Or an Island?

[Trailsend]

Not...hm. Yes? Not on or in, necessarily, just...so you know which one I mean. Like if you'd come in from the rain and your clothes were all soaked, and I had some dry clothes for you to put on instead, I could tell you,

11) Nà, oraùnksnọkoụ̀n, ṭȯ oraùkxrọkoụ̀n.

That means to get rid of the wet ones and take the ones I was giving you.

But I suppose you could say Atlantis ṇilhsnịjisịlh, because of all the water. Unless someone else had already said Hị́sulsixlwhisnwhị́q ṇulhsnịjusịlh, because then they wouldn't know which one you meant. You'd have to say something else.

Or a boat? Or an Island?

Sure, a boat or an island could be lwhuxsn too. Unless we were already talking about something lwhuxsn, then it would be confusing.

[Visions1]

So you only say it's wet when it hasn't been specified yet. But afterwards people will remember.

[Kesshin]

You use lwhuxsn as if it were it's own separate word. Is it?

[Arayaz]

"Is the separate speech just a respectful form, since you say it's always used with elders? And one would use it with the person most familiar with the place they're in, perhaps?" I push my glasses up the bridge of my nose. "And sorry I've spoken little here ─ I've been doing fieldwork in some other places."

[Trailsend]

You use lwhuxsn as if it were it's own separate word. Is it?

Yes.

"Is the separate speech just a respectful form, since you say it's always used with elders? And one would use it with the person most familiar with the place they're in, perhaps?" I push my glasses up the bridge of my nose. "And sorry I've spoken little here ─ I've been doing fieldwork in some other places."

Hmm...you ị́nuxstẹ to an elder to be respectful, yes, but it's not always that. Like, my cousin who lives here, sometimes I ị́nuxstẹ to him, and sometimes I ụ́luxstẹ to him.

[_Just_A_Sketch]

"Is there any reason you might say one or the other?"

[Trailsend]

Ah...

(I shift my weight back and forth. You get the sense I've never tried explaining this before.)

Like...if he woke up earlier than I did, and was already down at the weir when I got there, I would say Hilhkịnaụ̀wh—that's ị́nuxstẹ—and he would say Hulhkụnaụ̀wh back. But if I got there first, he would say Hilhkịnaụ̀wh to me when he got there.

Or if I was trying to smoke some fish—he's very good at that—and I asked him how to hang the fish properly, I would ị́nȯxstẹ to him, but if he asked me what the fastest way to my home territory is, he would ị́nȯxstẹ to me.

Sometimes...sometimes you just ụ́luxstẹ because...because you're talking. And everyone listens. And you don't ị́nuxstẹ until you finish, so someone else can ụ́lȯxstẹ.

I dunno. I guess you just ụ́luxstẹ when people are listening to you, and you ị́nuxstẹ when you're listening to them. You just know when to do it, it's hard to explain.

[Kesshin]

Sometimes...sometimes you just ụ́luxstẹ because...because you're talking. And everyone listens.

So if you're explaining something that you have expertise in?

Spoiler:

lwhuxsn

Hị́sulsixlhwhisnwhị́q

Am I the only one seeing an infix here? There are some changes though.