Lapdeutsch
Lapdeutsch
This is a language I mentioned a few days ago about making a post on. Lapdeutsch is a Germanic language spoken in parts of Germany and Netherlands. Its name refers not to any particular place but rather to the German word "Lappen" meaning rags as the language was traditionally viewed as an uneducated form of German. Despite this, the language shares not only a lot in common with Standard German, but also standard Dutch. The most notable feature of the language (and the main reason why I’ve created it) is that while cases for the most part are no longer really used in spoken language, due to a combination of fossilization and an effort on the behalf of grammarians to preserve outdated features, remnants of the case system are very common in pronouns, expressions (such as "in der Dad" meaning indeed or "tu Kope" meaning for sale) as well as in a very limited number of grammatical structures that are sometimes still kind of productive, albeit formal.
Phonology
Consonants
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng~n>
/p b t d k ɡ/ <p b t d k~c g>
/t͡s t͡ʃ/ <ts~z~t(i)~c tsch>
/f v s z ʃ ç h/ <f~v w~v s~ss s sch ch h>
/j r l/ <j r l>
Vowels
/ɪ iː ʏ yː ʊ uː/ <i i~ie ü~y ü~y u u>
/eː øː oː/ <e ö o>
/ɛ (ɛː) œ ɔ/ <e~ä ä ö o>
/ə/ <e~u~i~ei~ie~a>
/a ɑː/ <a a>
/œʏ̯ ɛɪ̯ ɔʊ̯ aɪ̯/ <eu~öu ei ou ai~ay>
Phonemes found only in loanwords
/d͡ʒ ʒ/
/ɔɪ̯ aʊ̯ ɛ̃ː œ̃ː ɔ̃ː ɑ̃ː/
Notes
/b d z/ are devoiced at the end of words and before consonants other than /b d g z v/
/ɡ/ is typically pronounced as [ɣ] between vowels and [k] before consonants other than /b d v z/. Before /k ɡ/ and word finally (or compound final in compound words), /ɡ/ merges with /ç/. After front vowels [ɣ] becomes [ʝ]. In some words such as röntgen (to x-ray), <ɡ> is pronounced irregularly as /ç/
/v/ becomes devoiced to /f/ word finally and before consonants other than /b d z g/ when spelled as <v>. Native words starting with <v> always pronounce it as /f/. When spelled as <w> it's always pronounced as /v/.
/t͡s s z/ are pronounced as [t̻͡s̻ s̻ z̻]
/s/ only contrasts with /z/ between vowels or in foreign words and /t͡s/ only occurs in native words as the realization of /ts/
Consonant clusters starting with <s> pronounce it as /s/ except when before /b d ɡ v/ where it's pronounced as /z/
/tj dj t͡sj sj zj/ are pronounced as [c c t͡ʃ ʃ ʒ]
/ç/ is pronounced as [x] after /uː oː/ and [χ] after /ʊ ɔ a ɑː ɔʊ̯/
/ɛː/ is almost always realized as [eː]. It's only pronounced as [ɛː] in the name of the letter <ä>, when giving the spelling pronunciation of a word, and in very careful speech that's almost only used by people in the media.
/ə/ is usually just the unstressed variant of /ɛ/ but it also represents the unstressed pronunciation for a number of single syllable words/stems with other vowels.
/aɪ̯/ almost only occurs in borrowings, some of which such as Hai (shark) and Kaiser (emperor) have been fully nativized. In native words it only occurs as a possible realization of /aɡ ɑːɡ ɛɡ eːɡ/ when before another consonant such as in Maid (girl) or gesaid (said).
The spelling of long vs. short vowels is based heavily on how it's done in German. The only major differences are that <h> is used far less often and that before two or more consonants a long vowel must be marked with either doubling the vowel or with <h>. The only exception is between the the boundary of compounds in compound words.
Phonology
Consonants
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng~n>
/p b t d k ɡ/ <p b t d k~c g>
/t͡s t͡ʃ/ <ts~z~t(i)~c tsch>
/f v s z ʃ ç h/ <f~v w~v s~ss s sch ch h>
/j r l/ <j r l>
Vowels
/ɪ iː ʏ yː ʊ uː/ <i i~ie ü~y ü~y u u>
/eː øː oː/ <e ö o>
/ɛ (ɛː) œ ɔ/ <e~ä ä ö o>
/ə/ <e~u~i~ei~ie~a>
/a ɑː/ <a a>
/œʏ̯ ɛɪ̯ ɔʊ̯ aɪ̯/ <eu~öu ei ou ai~ay>
Phonemes found only in loanwords
/d͡ʒ ʒ/
/ɔɪ̯ aʊ̯ ɛ̃ː œ̃ː ɔ̃ː ɑ̃ː/
Notes
/b d z/ are devoiced at the end of words and before consonants other than /b d g z v/
/ɡ/ is typically pronounced as [ɣ] between vowels and [k] before consonants other than /b d v z/. Before /k ɡ/ and word finally (or compound final in compound words), /ɡ/ merges with /ç/. After front vowels [ɣ] becomes [ʝ]. In some words such as röntgen (to x-ray), <ɡ> is pronounced irregularly as /ç/
/v/ becomes devoiced to /f/ word finally and before consonants other than /b d z g/ when spelled as <v>. Native words starting with <v> always pronounce it as /f/. When spelled as <w> it's always pronounced as /v/.
/t͡s s z/ are pronounced as [t̻͡s̻ s̻ z̻]
/s/ only contrasts with /z/ between vowels or in foreign words and /t͡s/ only occurs in native words as the realization of /ts/
Consonant clusters starting with <s> pronounce it as /s/ except when before /b d ɡ v/ where it's pronounced as /z/
/tj dj t͡sj sj zj/ are pronounced as [c c t͡ʃ ʃ ʒ]
/ç/ is pronounced as [x] after /uː oː/ and [χ] after /ʊ ɔ a ɑː ɔʊ̯/
/ɛː/ is almost always realized as [eː]. It's only pronounced as [ɛː] in the name of the letter <ä>, when giving the spelling pronunciation of a word, and in very careful speech that's almost only used by people in the media.
/ə/ is usually just the unstressed variant of /ɛ/ but it also represents the unstressed pronunciation for a number of single syllable words/stems with other vowels.
/aɪ̯/ almost only occurs in borrowings, some of which such as Hai (shark) and Kaiser (emperor) have been fully nativized. In native words it only occurs as a possible realization of /aɡ ɑːɡ ɛɡ eːɡ/ when before another consonant such as in Maid (girl) or gesaid (said).
The spelling of long vs. short vowels is based heavily on how it's done in German. The only major differences are that <h> is used far less often and that before two or more consonants a long vowel must be marked with either doubling the vowel or with <h>. The only exception is between the the boundary of compounds in compound words.
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 25 Apr 2019 06:09, edited 21 times in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
Interested to see where this goes
-
- sinic
- Posts: 406
- Joined: 21 Jul 2012 08:01
- Location: Buffalo, NY
Re: Lapdeutsch
Looking forward to more!
What happens to the Germanic strong and weak adjective inflections?
What happens to the Germanic strong and weak adjective inflections?
Re: Lapdeutsch
Traditionally adjectives had a 3-way distinction between strong, weak, and mixed in 4 cases with a variety of forms. These still remain in some expressions and grammatical constructs such as "tu rechter Teid" meaning "in due time" or "tum neuen Strande" which is a way of saying "to the new beach". In modern speech outside of these remains constructs, adjectives either take -e or no ending, aren't declined for case, and have merged the mixed and strong endings together.Porphyrogenitos wrote: ↑15 Oct 2018 23:06 Looking forward to more!
What happens to the Germanic strong and weak adjective inflections?
Re: Lapdeutsch
A Declension Nouns
Nouns seemed like a good place to start with the grammar . All nouns were traditionally declined to 4 cases but nowadays aren't as regularly encountered outside of the nominative as they used to be. The genitive still sometimes used for possession and the dative is often seen in expressions. The A Declension patterns shown below is the most common declension for masculine & neuter nouns.
Pattern 1
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -e
Genitive Singular: -s or -es
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -e
Dative Plural: -en
Genitive Plural: -e
Sample Noun: Smedd (Smith)
Pattern 2
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -
Genitive Singular: -s
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -
Dative Plural: -en (nothing if ending in -n)
Genitive Plural: -
Sample Noun: Morgen (Morning)
Used for most masculine/neuter nouns ending in -el/-en/-er
Pattern 3
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -
Genitive Singular: -s
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -̈
Dative Plural: -̈en (just -̈ if ending in -n)
Genitive Plural: -̈
Sample Noun: Vogel (Bird)
Used for all other masculine/neuter nouns ending in -el/-en/-er
Pattern 4
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -e
Dative Singular: -e
Genitive Singular: -es
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -e
Dative Plural: -en
Genitive Plural: -e
Sample Noun: Sege (Victory)
This pattern is used for the nouns Frede (peace), Käse (cheese), Sege (victory), and a fair number of neuter nouns starting with Ge-
Nouns seemed like a good place to start with the grammar . All nouns were traditionally declined to 4 cases but nowadays aren't as regularly encountered outside of the nominative as they used to be. The genitive still sometimes used for possession and the dative is often seen in expressions. The A Declension patterns shown below is the most common declension for masculine & neuter nouns.
Pattern 1
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -e
Genitive Singular: -s or -es
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -e
Dative Plural: -en
Genitive Plural: -e
Sample Noun: Smedd (Smith)
Spoiler:
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -
Genitive Singular: -s
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -
Dative Plural: -en (nothing if ending in -n)
Genitive Plural: -
Sample Noun: Morgen (Morning)
Spoiler:
Pattern 3
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -
Genitive Singular: -s
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -̈
Dative Plural: -̈en (just -̈ if ending in -n)
Genitive Plural: -̈
Sample Noun: Vogel (Bird)
Spoiler:
Pattern 4
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -e
Dative Singular: -e
Genitive Singular: -es
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -e
Dative Plural: -en
Genitive Plural: -e
Sample Noun: Sege (Victory)
Spoiler:
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 17 Feb 2019 04:08, edited 8 times in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
O, I, and Z Declension Nouns
O Declension
The most common "declension" for feminine nouns. Simply consists of a singular and plural form. Some nouns may end in -e while others may not, but regardless the plural is always formed is with -en
Singular: -(e)
Plural: -en
Sample Noun: Maid (Girl)
I Declension
Used by a ton of nouns, both masculine and feminine. Feminine nouns don't add the -e in the Dative or anything in the Genitive.
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -(e)
Genitive Singular: -(s) or -(es)
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -̈e
Dative Plural: -̈en
Genitive Plural: -̈e
Sample Noun: Stad (City)
Z Declension
Like in Dutch and German, this once small declension family has grown to include quite a few nouns
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -e
Genitive Singular: -s or -es
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -̈er
Dative Plural: -̈eren
Genitive Plural: -̈er
Sample Noun: Hus (House)
O Declension
The most common "declension" for feminine nouns. Simply consists of a singular and plural form. Some nouns may end in -e while others may not, but regardless the plural is always formed is with -en
Singular: -(e)
Plural: -en
Sample Noun: Maid (Girl)
Spoiler:
Used by a ton of nouns, both masculine and feminine. Feminine nouns don't add the -e in the Dative or anything in the Genitive.
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -(e)
Genitive Singular: -(s) or -(es)
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -̈e
Dative Plural: -̈en
Genitive Plural: -̈e
Sample Noun: Stad (City)
Spoiler:
Like in Dutch and German, this once small declension family has grown to include quite a few nouns
Nominative/Accusative Singular: -
Dative Singular: -e
Genitive Singular: -s or -es
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -̈er
Dative Plural: -̈eren
Genitive Plural: -̈er
Sample Noun: Hus (House)
Spoiler:
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 02 Aug 2019 15:12, edited 6 times in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
Weak Declension Nouns
Used for a number of masculine nouns. Some nouns have an -e in the nominative while others don't
Nominative Singular: -(e)
Accusative: -en
Dative Singular: -en
Genitive Singular: -en
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -en
Dative Plural: -en
Genitive Plural: -en
Sample Noun: Her (Sir)
Used for a number of masculine nouns. Some nouns have an -e in the nominative while others don't
Nominative Singular: -(e)
Accusative: -en
Dative Singular: -en
Genitive Singular: -en
Nominative/Accusative Plural: -en
Dative Plural: -en
Genitive Plural: -en
Sample Noun: Her (Sir)
Spoiler:
Re: Lapdeutsch
Irregular Declensions
Brain (n)- Brain
Hert (n)- Heart
Jar (n)- Year
Junge (m)- Boy
Mann (m)- Man
Muder (f)- Mother
Same pattern used for Dochter (daughter) and Suster (sister)
Oge (n)- Eye
Sohn (m)- Son
Same pattern used for Kerl (guy)
In addition to these, the nouns Nacht and Wereld, both of which are feminine and usually have regular declensions, have masculine genitive forms (nachts and werelds) when used in the expressions "at night" and "in the world"
Brain (n)- Brain
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Same pattern used for Dochter (daughter) and Suster (sister)
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Same pattern used for Kerl (guy)
Spoiler:
In addition to these, the nouns Nacht and Wereld, both of which are feminine and usually have regular declensions, have masculine genitive forms (nachts and werelds) when used in the expressions "at night" and "in the world"
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 17 Jan 2019 15:01, edited 17 times in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
I figured I’d rush through nouns since it’s pretty simple grammar. I could move on next to either more declensions, or could discuss the different ways the various cases are still used in modern speech. Which would you guys be more interested in seeing now?
- Creyeditor
- MVP
- Posts: 5198
- Joined: 14 Aug 2012 19:32
Re: Lapdeutsch
I would love to hear about actual case use.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Lapdeutsch
I'd like to know how they're still used in modern speech.
Re: Lapdeutsch
Accusative Case Remnants
As requested I'll start covering actual case usage . Out of the 3 outdated cases, the accusative is by far the least used and due to this it's probably associated with older texts more than the dative and genitive are for most speakers. Below are the remaining uses of the accusative in modern speech
-A large number of time expressions, particularly those with de ganse (the entire/whole), de heile (the whole), dis (this), fein (merry/happy), gud (good), jeder (each/every), lätst (last), & nächst (next), e.g: den gansen Harvst (the entire autumn), den heilen Maand (the whole month), disen Morgen (this morning), feinen Christdag (merry Christmas), guden Nahmiddag (good afternoon), jeden Dag (every day), lätsten Christavend (last Christmas Eve), nächsten Fruher (next spring)
-After the preposition bit (until) all of the accusative time expressions remain in the accusative e.g: bit nächsten Summer (until next Summer)
-The question words wen (whom) and welken/welke/welk (which) are still commonly seen in the accusative when asking for the direct object, even more-so than English whom, e.g: "wen saags du?” (who did you see?)
-Similar to the above, the masculine accusative relative pronoun is still commonly used for the direct object, e.g: "de Mann, den ik sag" (the man that I saw)
-Personal pronouns, when not the subject of the sentence, are (with two exceptions) always encountered in their traditionally accusative case forms, e.g: "ik sag hin" (I saw him)
-Although its not commonly used in spoken language, jemand's accusative form (jemanden) is still commonly used to show syntax e.g: "jemanden tu helpen" (to help someone)
As requested I'll start covering actual case usage . Out of the 3 outdated cases, the accusative is by far the least used and due to this it's probably associated with older texts more than the dative and genitive are for most speakers. Below are the remaining uses of the accusative in modern speech
-A large number of time expressions, particularly those with de ganse (the entire/whole), de heile (the whole), dis (this), fein (merry/happy), gud (good), jeder (each/every), lätst (last), & nächst (next), e.g: den gansen Harvst (the entire autumn), den heilen Maand (the whole month), disen Morgen (this morning), feinen Christdag (merry Christmas), guden Nahmiddag (good afternoon), jeden Dag (every day), lätsten Christavend (last Christmas Eve), nächsten Fruher (next spring)
-After the preposition bit (until) all of the accusative time expressions remain in the accusative e.g: bit nächsten Summer (until next Summer)
-The question words wen (whom) and welken/welke/welk (which) are still commonly seen in the accusative when asking for the direct object, even more-so than English whom, e.g: "wen saags du?” (who did you see?)
-Similar to the above, the masculine accusative relative pronoun is still commonly used for the direct object, e.g: "de Mann, den ik sag" (the man that I saw)
-Personal pronouns, when not the subject of the sentence, are (with two exceptions) always encountered in their traditionally accusative case forms, e.g: "ik sag hin" (I saw him)
-Although its not commonly used in spoken language, jemand's accusative form (jemanden) is still commonly used to show syntax e.g: "jemanden tu helpen" (to help someone)
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 16 Jan 2019 15:09, edited 6 times in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
Dative Case Remnants
-Similar to the accusative, a large number of time expressions take the dative cases. Those that do are those involving the prepositions an (on), in (in), send (for), & vor (ago), e.g: am Tweiden (on the second), im April (in April), send einem Jare (for a year), vor drei Maanden (three months ago). Unlike the accusative time expressions, those not involving the contractions am and im can be replaced with the nominative in informal situations.
-The prepositions tu [tuː] (meaning to) and tu [tə] (meaning at) are always used with the dative. Because of a lack of knowledge of the dative, in informal speech these prepositions are often replaced with other prepositions such as up/an/in/nah outside of the well-known expressions which use them.
-After the prepositions in (when showing location) and van, non-neuter countries must be used in the dative except in very informal speech, e.g: in der Tschechischen Republik (in the Czech Republic); van der Sweits (from Switzerland)
-A huge number of dative expressions exist, particularly those involving location, including: nah Huse (at home), in meinem Herten (in my heart), tum Slotte (finally), nah meiner Meining (in my opinion), in Fakte (in fact), in der Stad (in the city), tu Kope (for sale), vor allem (above all), am _ tu sein (to be -ing)
-The question words wem (to whom) and welkem/welker/welken (to which) are used for asking for the indirect object, e.g: "wem gaavs du it?" (who did you give it to?)
-Similar to the above, the dative relative pronouns dem (masculine/neuter), der (feminine), and den (plural) are still commonly used for the indirect object, e.g: "de Mann, dem ik it koopte" (the man I bought it for) and "meine Muder, der it kald is" (my mom, who is cold)
-The personal pronouns he (he) and sie (they) maintain a dative case form "him" that is used for showing indirect objects e.g: "gaavs du it him?" (did you give it to him?)
-In quite formal speech, if plural and used without determiners or adjectives as an indirect object, the dative may be used for nouns that would otherwise be identical in the singular and plural e.g: "he gav it Bürgeren" (he gave it to citizens) rather than "he gav it Bürger"
-Although its not commonly used in spoken language, jemand's dative form (jemandem) is still commonly used to show syntax e.g: "jemandem jeet tu geven" (to give something to someone)
-Similar to the accusative, a large number of time expressions take the dative cases. Those that do are those involving the prepositions an (on), in (in), send (for), & vor (ago), e.g: am Tweiden (on the second), im April (in April), send einem Jare (for a year), vor drei Maanden (three months ago). Unlike the accusative time expressions, those not involving the contractions am and im can be replaced with the nominative in informal situations.
-The prepositions tu [tuː] (meaning to) and tu [tə] (meaning at) are always used with the dative. Because of a lack of knowledge of the dative, in informal speech these prepositions are often replaced with other prepositions such as up/an/in/nah outside of the well-known expressions which use them.
-After the prepositions in (when showing location) and van, non-neuter countries must be used in the dative except in very informal speech, e.g: in der Tschechischen Republik (in the Czech Republic); van der Sweits (from Switzerland)
-A huge number of dative expressions exist, particularly those involving location, including: nah Huse (at home), in meinem Herten (in my heart), tum Slotte (finally), nah meiner Meining (in my opinion), in Fakte (in fact), in der Stad (in the city), tu Kope (for sale), vor allem (above all), am _ tu sein (to be -ing)
-The question words wem (to whom) and welkem/welker/welken (to which) are used for asking for the indirect object, e.g: "wem gaavs du it?" (who did you give it to?)
-Similar to the above, the dative relative pronouns dem (masculine/neuter), der (feminine), and den (plural) are still commonly used for the indirect object, e.g: "de Mann, dem ik it koopte" (the man I bought it for) and "meine Muder, der it kald is" (my mom, who is cold)
-The personal pronouns he (he) and sie (they) maintain a dative case form "him" that is used for showing indirect objects e.g: "gaavs du it him?" (did you give it to him?)
-In quite formal speech, if plural and used without determiners or adjectives as an indirect object, the dative may be used for nouns that would otherwise be identical in the singular and plural e.g: "he gav it Bürgeren" (he gave it to citizens) rather than "he gav it Bürger"
-Although its not commonly used in spoken language, jemand's dative form (jemandem) is still commonly used to show syntax e.g: "jemandem jeet tu geven" (to give something to someone)
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 17 Feb 2019 04:03, edited 10 times in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
Genitive Case Remnants
-Like the other cases there are several genitive time expressions including des Nachts (in the night), des Summers (in the summer), eines Daags (one day/one of these days), eines Nachts (one of these nights)
-Some prepositions may be used with the genitive in very formal speech. Nowadays the genitive is replaced with van, e.g: onweg des/onweg van de (despite), plaats des/plaats van de (instead of), wegen des/wegen van de (because of). The only exception is the preposition durend (during) which drops the van
-Several other genitive expressions exist including des Huses (of the house), des Lands (in/of the country), des Werelds (in/of the world)
-The question words wes (masculine/neuter) and wer (feminine/plural) (whose) are commonly used for asking about possession e.g: "wes Hund is dat?" (whose dog is that?)
-The relative pronouns des (masculine/neuter) and der (feminine/plural) are also still commonly used e.g: "de Vrou, der Hus gell is" (the woman whose house is yellow)
-The demonstrative pronouns desjenen (masculine/neuter) and derjenen (feminine/plural) are still commonly used for the meaning "of the one/of those" e.g "ik weit de Name desjenen, de du saags" (I know the name of the one who you saw)
-Pronouns and countries still commonly use the genitive to show possession. Aside from this, other words typically use the preposition van (of) or a his genitive construction but in formal speech you may see the genitive elsewhere
-Some adjectives such as möde (tired), sieker (sure/safe), voll (full), and werdig (worthy) take the genitive case in formal speech. When doing so the noun is placed before the adjective. Informally the preceding noun may instead be in the nominative or may not precede the adjective but instead come after both it and a preposition. Which one depends on the given adjective
-Commonly used for showing possession with family members and names, albeit with determiners/adjectives remaining in the nominative and the masculine singular ending being used with women and plural nouns e.g: Angelas (Angela's), meine Mutters (my mother's), mein Sohns (my son's), meine Sohns' (my sons'), meine Süsters (my sisters')
-Still often used in the names of artistic works
-The numbers two, three, and four all continue to use their genitive forms when not preceded by a determiner and being used to show possession, e.g: "ein Vader dreier Kinder" (a father of three kids). This formation is considered to be very formal though.
-Partitive adjectives take the genitive ending -es and occur after words and phrases like jeet (something), jemand (someone), neet (nothing), wat für (what kind of)
-Like the other cases there are several genitive time expressions including des Nachts (in the night), des Summers (in the summer), eines Daags (one day/one of these days), eines Nachts (one of these nights)
-Some prepositions may be used with the genitive in very formal speech. Nowadays the genitive is replaced with van, e.g: onweg des/onweg van de (despite), plaats des/plaats van de (instead of), wegen des/wegen van de (because of). The only exception is the preposition durend (during) which drops the van
-Several other genitive expressions exist including des Huses (of the house), des Lands (in/of the country), des Werelds (in/of the world)
-The question words wes (masculine/neuter) and wer (feminine/plural) (whose) are commonly used for asking about possession e.g: "wes Hund is dat?" (whose dog is that?)
-The relative pronouns des (masculine/neuter) and der (feminine/plural) are also still commonly used e.g: "de Vrou, der Hus gell is" (the woman whose house is yellow)
-The demonstrative pronouns desjenen (masculine/neuter) and derjenen (feminine/plural) are still commonly used for the meaning "of the one/of those" e.g "ik weit de Name desjenen, de du saags" (I know the name of the one who you saw)
-Pronouns and countries still commonly use the genitive to show possession. Aside from this, other words typically use the preposition van (of) or a his genitive construction but in formal speech you may see the genitive elsewhere
-Some adjectives such as möde (tired), sieker (sure/safe), voll (full), and werdig (worthy) take the genitive case in formal speech. When doing so the noun is placed before the adjective. Informally the preceding noun may instead be in the nominative or may not precede the adjective but instead come after both it and a preposition. Which one depends on the given adjective
-Commonly used for showing possession with family members and names, albeit with determiners/adjectives remaining in the nominative and the masculine singular ending being used with women and plural nouns e.g: Angelas (Angela's), meine Mutters (my mother's), mein Sohns (my son's), meine Sohns' (my sons'), meine Süsters (my sisters')
-Still often used in the names of artistic works
-The numbers two, three, and four all continue to use their genitive forms when not preceded by a determiner and being used to show possession, e.g: "ein Vader dreier Kinder" (a father of three kids). This formation is considered to be very formal though.
-Partitive adjectives take the genitive ending -es and occur after words and phrases like jeet (something), jemand (someone), neet (nothing), wat für (what kind of)
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 25 Apr 2019 06:14, edited 7 times in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
Past & Present Perfect
Given the similarities to other West Germanic languages, I decided that it makes more sense for me to mostly cover differences between Lapdeutsch and German/Dutch instead of everything piece by piece like I normally do. I'll start off with covering the 2 different ways to form the past tense as well as the present perfect.
Simple Past
Unlike German, the simple past is typically viewed as the most neutral and common way to form the past tense and generally preferred for all levels of communication except for very informal speech. For weak verbs the conjugation is as follows:
Strong verbs have a similar conjugation but remove the -de- and replace it with a change in the stem's vowel. Mixed verbs (of which there are 10) undergo vowel and or consonant changes in the stem but keep the regular weak verb endings. These verbs include seggen (say) which has the past tense stem of sai-. The final group of verbs, irregular verbs, consists of the modal verbs, dun (do), gahn (go), heven (have), sehn (see), sein/wesen (be), slahn (hit), stahn (stand), & wetten (know). These verbs have very irregular stems in the past but also have some irregularities in the present tense as well.
Present Perfect
The present perfect is formed very similar to how one might expect it to: a present-tense conjugated form of heven (for transitive verbs) or sein/wesen (for most intransitive verbs) followed by a past participle. All past participles begin with ge- (except for those beginning with inseparable prefixes and those from French) but have different endings depending on the verb type. For weak verbs the ending is -d or -t, for strong verbs it's -en, for mixed verbs it's -d or -t in addition to the past tense's vowel/consonant change, and for irregular verbs it simply has to be known. Below are the present tense conjugations of heven and sein/wesen that accompany the past participle.
Heven
Sein/Wesen
Compound Past
This tense has no real direct equivalent in either Dutch or any variety of German in terms of meaning although its usage is partially based on upper dialects of Low German. Although it's existed in the language for a fairly long time, it has always been seen as very informal and "lesser" than the simple past. Efforts have been made to remove its existence, but only to varying degrees of success. In general, one uses the simple past in writing and in most forms of communication, but in fairly informal communication the compound past is more common. The compound past is formed very similarly to the present perfect, but removes ge- at the beginning, replacing it with an apostrophe in writing. There are a few irregularities:
1. Eten (to eat) has the past participle gegeten, but in the compound past has the participle 'eten rather than 'geten
2. Separable prefix verbs only remove the g- i.e: turugteigen (to report) has the past participle turuggeteggen, which becomes turug'eteggen in the compound past
3. Verbs which have ge- in all of their forms don't remove it
4. The verb werden, when being used to form the passive voice, has its participle geworden completely dropped in the compound past, leaving just the auxiliary verb sein/wesen. If context isn't clear enough to show that the verb is in the past, the simple past tense of werden may be used.
5. Even in the compound past a large number of verbs are still fairly commonly used in the simple past including all of the irregular verbs
Although the compound past is formed based on the present perfect, even in informal conversation these 2 tenses remained distinct compare:
Ik hev hin gesehn (I've seen him)
Ik hev hin 'sehn (I saw him)
Despite this distinction, the present perfect isn't that commonly used in conversations where one would even use the compound past but nevertheless the distinction does exist.
Given the similarities to other West Germanic languages, I decided that it makes more sense for me to mostly cover differences between Lapdeutsch and German/Dutch instead of everything piece by piece like I normally do. I'll start off with covering the 2 different ways to form the past tense as well as the present perfect.
Simple Past
Unlike German, the simple past is typically viewed as the most neutral and common way to form the past tense and generally preferred for all levels of communication except for very informal speech. For weak verbs the conjugation is as follows:
Spoiler:
Present Perfect
The present perfect is formed very similar to how one might expect it to: a present-tense conjugated form of heven (for transitive verbs) or sein/wesen (for most intransitive verbs) followed by a past participle. All past participles begin with ge- (except for those beginning with inseparable prefixes and those from French) but have different endings depending on the verb type. For weak verbs the ending is -d or -t, for strong verbs it's -en, for mixed verbs it's -d or -t in addition to the past tense's vowel/consonant change, and for irregular verbs it simply has to be known. Below are the present tense conjugations of heven and sein/wesen that accompany the past participle.
Heven
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Compound Past
This tense has no real direct equivalent in either Dutch or any variety of German in terms of meaning although its usage is partially based on upper dialects of Low German. Although it's existed in the language for a fairly long time, it has always been seen as very informal and "lesser" than the simple past. Efforts have been made to remove its existence, but only to varying degrees of success. In general, one uses the simple past in writing and in most forms of communication, but in fairly informal communication the compound past is more common. The compound past is formed very similarly to the present perfect, but removes ge- at the beginning, replacing it with an apostrophe in writing. There are a few irregularities:
1. Eten (to eat) has the past participle gegeten, but in the compound past has the participle 'eten rather than 'geten
2. Separable prefix verbs only remove the g- i.e: turugteigen (to report) has the past participle turuggeteggen, which becomes turug'eteggen in the compound past
3. Verbs which have ge- in all of their forms don't remove it
4. The verb werden, when being used to form the passive voice, has its participle geworden completely dropped in the compound past, leaving just the auxiliary verb sein/wesen. If context isn't clear enough to show that the verb is in the past, the simple past tense of werden may be used.
5. Even in the compound past a large number of verbs are still fairly commonly used in the simple past including all of the irregular verbs
Although the compound past is formed based on the present perfect, even in informal conversation these 2 tenses remained distinct compare:
Ik hev hin gesehn (I've seen him)
Ik hev hin 'sehn (I saw him)
Despite this distinction, the present perfect isn't that commonly used in conversations where one would even use the compound past but nevertheless the distinction does exist.
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 05 Nov 2018 04:25, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
Adjectives
Traditional Adjective Endings
Traditionally adjectives were declined for case, gender and number, as well as having weak, mixed, and strong declensions. Weak declensions are used before words such as the definitive articles, sölke (such), alle (all), dise (this), jeder (every), unser (our), euer (your); mixed declensions are used before words such as the indefinite articles, the negative indefinite articles, soon (such a), jeen (that), mein (my), dein (your), sein (his/its), her (her/their); strong declensions are used when no determiner precedes the noun. These adjective endings have largely fallen out of use but occur in the case remnants still used in modern language. Adjectives not used attributively take no ending. From left to right: masculine, feminine, neuter, plural.
Modern Adjective Endings
Significantly decreased from the original case endings. Mixed and strong declensions have combined their declensions.
Weak:
-e/-e/-e/-en
Mixed/Strong:
-e/-e/-/-e
Irregularities
-The past participles of strong verbs, adjectives of materials ending in -en, and the adjectives eigen (own), tufreden (content/satisfied), and open (open) do not have any endings in nominative and accusative forms in the old case endings, and don't have any endings period in the modern adjective endings
-The past participles of mixed and weak verbs turn the -t into -d whenever there's an adjective ending, unless the stem ends in a voiceless consonant in which case it's always -t
-Adjectives ending in -e don't add another -e before adding endings
-Adjectives ending in -el/-er remove the -e from the stem
-Adjectives ending in -lik pronounce the -i as [ə]
-Many foreign adjectives, including many ending in -a and -o, don’t decline at all
-The adjectives linker (left) and rechter (right) have the stems link- & recht- but have the irregular ending -er in the masculine nominative and the neuter nominative/accusative forms for the weak, mixed, and strong declensions in both the traditional and modern declensions
-A few adjectives change their stems when endings are added. On the left is the endingless stem and the on the right is in the stem used with endings
Dwarch/Dwarr- Cross/crossways/across or slanted/askew/lopsided or stubborn/rebellious
Faal/Faalv- Pale/pallid/sallow
Frou/Frouv- Happy/merry
Gell/Gelv- Yellow
Gaar/Gaarv- Ready/done/cooked
Hooch/Hoh- High
Lüll/Lütl- Few
Naach/Nah- Near/nearby
Nou/Nouv- Narrow/close
Rou/Rouv- Raw
Ruuch/Ruh- Rough
Schelch/Schell- Crosseyed/squinting
Traditional Adjective Endings
Traditionally adjectives were declined for case, gender and number, as well as having weak, mixed, and strong declensions. Weak declensions are used before words such as the definitive articles, sölke (such), alle (all), dise (this), jeder (every), unser (our), euer (your); mixed declensions are used before words such as the indefinite articles, the negative indefinite articles, soon (such a), jeen (that), mein (my), dein (your), sein (his/its), her (her/their); strong declensions are used when no determiner precedes the noun. These adjective endings have largely fallen out of use but occur in the case remnants still used in modern language. Adjectives not used attributively take no ending. From left to right: masculine, feminine, neuter, plural.
Spoiler:
Significantly decreased from the original case endings. Mixed and strong declensions have combined their declensions.
Weak:
-e/-e/-e/-en
Mixed/Strong:
-e/-e/-/-e
Irregularities
-The past participles of strong verbs, adjectives of materials ending in -en, and the adjectives eigen (own), tufreden (content/satisfied), and open (open) do not have any endings in nominative and accusative forms in the old case endings, and don't have any endings period in the modern adjective endings
-The past participles of mixed and weak verbs turn the -t into -d whenever there's an adjective ending, unless the stem ends in a voiceless consonant in which case it's always -t
-Adjectives ending in -e don't add another -e before adding endings
-Adjectives ending in -el/-er remove the -e from the stem
-Adjectives ending in -lik pronounce the -i as [ə]
-Many foreign adjectives, including many ending in -a and -o, don’t decline at all
-The adjectives linker (left) and rechter (right) have the stems link- & recht- but have the irregular ending -er in the masculine nominative and the neuter nominative/accusative forms for the weak, mixed, and strong declensions in both the traditional and modern declensions
-A few adjectives change their stems when endings are added. On the left is the endingless stem and the on the right is in the stem used with endings
Dwarch/Dwarr- Cross/crossways/across or slanted/askew/lopsided or stubborn/rebellious
Faal/Faalv- Pale/pallid/sallow
Frou/Frouv- Happy/merry
Gell/Gelv- Yellow
Gaar/Gaarv- Ready/done/cooked
Hooch/Hoh- High
Lüll/Lütl- Few
Naach/Nah- Near/nearby
Nou/Nouv- Narrow/close
Rou/Rouv- Raw
Ruuch/Ruh- Rough
Schelch/Schell- Crosseyed/squinting
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 23 Mar 2019 23:38, edited 11 times in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
Thanks for all the great questions and comments Shimo!
For Mann, formal speech maintains a distinction between Mann (used after numerals to show the size of a group) and Männer (used everywhere else). In informal speech this distinction isn't as clearcut but in general Mann is used with numerals while Männer can be used anywhere.
For Brain, the typical plural is Braine. The plural Brains actually caries a different meaning and refers to brains in the sense of either meat or intellect. It can also be used as an insult, implying someone's brain is that of an animal's, e.g: Wend deine Brains an! "use your brain!"
Well noun declensions are all covered for the most part. I was referring to pronouns and determiners as far as undiscussed declensions go.
Brennen (Brannd-): Burn
Bringen (Bracht-): Bring
Bruken (Brucht-): Need
Denken (Dacht-): Think
Dünken (Ducht-): Seem
Kennen (Kannd-): Know
Nömmen (Nammd-): Call
Plegen (Placht-): Do Habitually or Nurse
Rennen (Rannd-): Run
Seggen (Said-)- Say
Senden (Sandd-): Send
Süken (Sucht-): Look For
Wenden (Wandd-): Turn
I wouldn't consider it a Low German variety but rather a Weser-Rhine Germanic language with significant influence from Low German. Not sure how many speakers there would be but it definitely wouldn't be an endangered language.shimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41Would you consider Lapdeutsch a Low German variety? Have you considered who the speakers are or how many there are?
As a phoneme it only exists as the realization of /ng/. /nk/ is also pronounced as /ŋk/shimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41Is the velar nasal a distinct phoneme? If so, what is its distribution like?
Yep!
[st]shimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41Are, for example, initial <st-> clusters pronounced [st] or [ʃt]
/t͡s/ is only spelled as <z> in German loanwords and is also sometimes spelled <t> in French and Latin loanwords like Demokratie. /œʏ̯/ is only spelled as <öu> when the phoneme /ɔʊ̯/ undergoes an umlaut, which is fairly rare such as fröulik (cheerful) which comes from frou (merry). In native words only the spelling <ai> is used for /aɪ̯/ but ay may be seen in loanwords and names such as Bayeren (Bavaria).shimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41Is there anything in particular that determines the spellings of /t͡s œʏ̯ aɪ̯/?
[pd]
If you look back at it I said final /g/ became /ç/ not [ç]
I'd imagine so. Even if it may potentially not have that much of a presence. I haven't decided yet.
The -es ending can be used for any single syllable noun and is mandatory after nouns ending in -s/-z/-sch, while -s is used for all other nouns. The choice between -es/-s with single syllable nouns I think would depend on personal preference, with -s being more common when spoken but -es being more common in writing, especially in words such as Stad where the spelling would have to be changed in the genitive stem to Staads. In cases like that I'd imagine the -es ending would be more common in writing as no spelling changes would have to take place to the stem (Stades). Genitive expressions like eines Dags can only take the -s ending though.shimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41For nouns that have two possible genitive singular endings, are there any particular factors that condition the use of -s vs. -es? It seems like only -es can be used for nouns ending in -s, but either ending can be used for other nouns. Is that true?
For Junge and Sohn it's up to personal preference. Jungs and Sohns are by far the most common, but Jungen and Söhne are seen as being technically more correct and are the preferred forms in formal speech. I've also decided to add the noun Kerl, with its plurals Kerle and Kerls to this group.shimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41Similar to the last question, for the nouns in this category that have two possible plural forms for each case, are there any discernible reasons why an individual speaker might choose one over another, beyond personal preference?
For Mann, formal speech maintains a distinction between Mann (used after numerals to show the size of a group) and Männer (used everywhere else). In informal speech this distinction isn't as clearcut but in general Mann is used with numerals while Männer can be used anywhere.
For Brain, the typical plural is Braine. The plural Brains actually caries a different meaning and refers to brains in the sense of either meat or intellect. It can also be used as an insult, implying someone's brain is that of an animal's, e.g: Wend deine Brains an! "use your brain!"
Unlike all other prepositions, even in modern speech the prepositions tu [tuː] and tu [tə] have to take the dative case. Even now they'd sound really weird if used with the nominative. However a lot of Lapdeutsch speakers, especially less educated ones, don't know the ins and outs of the dative, especially as it relates to adjectives. Thus, rather than incorrectly use the dative, it's far more common to simply replace these prepositions with others such as up/an/in/nah, except in the large variety of very common dative expressions which use tu [tuː] and tu [tə].shimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41Could you potentially elaborate a little more on what you mean here?
Glad to hear itshimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41I enjoyed reading about all the remaining uses of the accusative, dative, and genitive, but this one might be my favorite, for some reason.
shimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41I think you mentioned that there are still some noun declensions that haven't been covered? I'd be interested in hearing about those, as well as more about the language's pronoun system, if you'd be interested in covering them.
Well noun declensions are all covered for the most part. I was referring to pronouns and determiners as far as undiscussed declensions go.
Yep!
Sorry just realized I miscounted. There's actually 13 mixed verbs:
Brennen (Brannd-): Burn
Bringen (Bracht-): Bring
Bruken (Brucht-): Need
Denken (Dacht-): Think
Dünken (Ducht-): Seem
Kennen (Kannd-): Know
Nömmen (Nammd-): Call
Plegen (Placht-): Do Habitually or Nurse
Rennen (Rannd-): Run
Seggen (Said-)- Say
Senden (Sandd-): Send
Süken (Sucht-): Look For
Wenden (Wandd-): Turn
I take it you like the idea?
Which ending someone uses in this case generally depends on the year of the text in question. In older texts the mixed declension was seen as being closer to the weak declension and thus -en was typically used. As time went on the mixed became more associated with the strong declension and -e became more common. Grammarians at the time, as well as some now, argued that using -e was incorrect and for -en to be used instead. Thus even in newer texts you might still see -en being used, albeit rarely.shimobaatar wrote: ↑03 Nov 2018 16:41Interesting! Similar to questions I've asked above, is there any particular reason why someone might use either -e or -en for the nominative/accusative plural here?
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 17 Jan 2019 15:02, edited 6 times in total.
Re: Lapdeutsch
Determiners
Hopefully I'm not posting too much. Just quite a fan of Lapdeutsch's determiners.
Definite Article
Also used as relative pronouns
Nominative: De/Die/Dat/Die
Accusative: Den/Die/Dat/Die
Dative: Dem/Der/Dem/Den
Genitive: Des/Der/Des/Der
In addition to the definite articles, there are also the words dejene (the one, this one, he etc.) and deselve (the same) which decline the same as the definite articles followed by weak adjectives.
De Words
These determiners/pronouns get their name from taking endings similar to the definite articles. Adjectives following them take the weak endings.
Nominative: -e/-e/-/-e
Accusative: -en/-e/-/-e
Dative: -em/-er/-em/-en
Genitive: -es/-er/-es/-er
Determiners With This Declension
Alle- All (undeclined form all if before a determiner or pronoun)
Dise- This
Enige- Some
Manige- Many (a)/much (undeclined form manig if before an adjective)
Sölke- Such
Welke- Which
Jeder Words
A small set of determiners/pronouns are identical to the de words outside of the nominative singular. Adjectives following them take the weak endings.
Nominative: -er/-e/-/-e
Accusative: -en/-e/-/-e
Dative: -em/-er/-em/-en
Genitive: -es/-er/-es/-er
Determiners With This Declension
Euer- Your (plural)
Jeder- Each/every
Unser- Our
Ein Words
These determiners get their name from taking the same endings as the indefinite articles. Adjectives following them take the mixed endings.
Nominative: -/-e/-/-e
Accusative: -en/-e/-/-e
Dative: -em/-er/-em/-en
Genitive: -es/-er/-es/-er
Determiners With This Declension
Chein- Negative indefinite article
Dein- Your (singular)
Ein- Indefinite article
Éin- One
Her- Her/their
Jeen- That/yonder
Mein- My
Sein- His/its
Soon- Such a
Veel Words
These determiners are undeclined if singular but follow normal declension rules if plural. Adjectives following them take the strong endings.
Nominative: -/-/-/-e
Accusative: -/-/-/-e
Dative: -/-/-/-en
Genitive: -/-/-/-er
Determiners With This Declension
Meer- More
Soveel- So much
Veel- Much/a lot
Wenig- Few
Woveel- How much
Beidet (Both)
This word occurs as a pronoun in both the singular and plural but only in the plural when used as a determiner. The singular form is always used for two situations or two choices and can be used with objects, and when doing so treats them as a collective whole. The plural is always used for people and can also be used for objects.
Nominative: Beidet/Beide
Accusative: Beidet/Beide
Dative: Beidem/Beiden
Genitive: Beides/Beider
Unlike other determiners/pronouns Beide has a unique mixed/weak form beiden which occurs after determiners which take those adjective forms in all 4 cases. Note that even though the mixed declension in modern language takes the ending -e, the mixed form of beide remains beiden. Whether or not it is preceded by another determiner, all adjectives following beide take the weak endings.
Numerals
Twei (Two)
Unlike all other words used attributively, this one maintains a distinction between the genders in the plural. Adjectives following take the weak endings.
Nominative: Twein/Two/Twei
Accusative: Twein/Two/Twei
Dative: Tweien
Genitive: Tweier
Drei (Three) & Vier (Four)
Adjectives following take the strong endings
Nominative: Drei and Vier
Accusative: Drei and Vier
Dative: Dreien and Vieren
Genitive: Dreier and Vierer
Numerals Above Vier
All numerals above vier are undeclined. Adjectives following them take the strong endings.
Vowel Reduction
Vowel reduction is particularly common in unstressed determiners:
-The vowel in all definite articles is pronounced as /ə/. Thus unstressed de and die are pronounced the same. When used as relative pronouns they are always stressed.
-For chein, ein (but not éin which is always stressed), mein, dein, sein, her, and unser the vowel is pronounced as /ə/.
-The endingless forms ein, chein, mein, dein, and sein are often further simplified to just ei' /ə/, chei' /çə/, mei' /mə/, dei' /də/, and sei' /zə/ when not before a vowel
-Eine is often further reduced to just 'ne /nə/
-When used before a pronoun or determiner, undeclined all is pronounced /əl/
-Endlingless dis is pronounced as /dɪs/ when stressed in contrast to the other forms which pronounce the stem as /diːz/. When unstressed, endingless dis is further reduced to just /dəs/
Hopefully I'm not posting too much. Just quite a fan of Lapdeutsch's determiners.
Definite Article
Also used as relative pronouns
Nominative: De/Die/Dat/Die
Accusative: Den/Die/Dat/Die
Dative: Dem/Der/Dem/Den
Genitive: Des/Der/Des/Der
In addition to the definite articles, there are also the words dejene (the one, this one, he etc.) and deselve (the same) which decline the same as the definite articles followed by weak adjectives.
De Words
These determiners/pronouns get their name from taking endings similar to the definite articles. Adjectives following them take the weak endings.
Nominative: -e/-e/-/-e
Accusative: -en/-e/-/-e
Dative: -em/-er/-em/-en
Genitive: -es/-er/-es/-er
Determiners With This Declension
Alle- All (undeclined form all if before a determiner or pronoun)
Dise- This
Enige- Some
Manige- Many (a)/much (undeclined form manig if before an adjective)
Sölke- Such
Welke- Which
Jeder Words
A small set of determiners/pronouns are identical to the de words outside of the nominative singular. Adjectives following them take the weak endings.
Nominative: -er/-e/-/-e
Accusative: -en/-e/-/-e
Dative: -em/-er/-em/-en
Genitive: -es/-er/-es/-er
Determiners With This Declension
Euer- Your (plural)
Jeder- Each/every
Unser- Our
Ein Words
These determiners get their name from taking the same endings as the indefinite articles. Adjectives following them take the mixed endings.
Nominative: -/-e/-/-e
Accusative: -en/-e/-/-e
Dative: -em/-er/-em/-en
Genitive: -es/-er/-es/-er
Determiners With This Declension
Chein- Negative indefinite article
Dein- Your (singular)
Ein- Indefinite article
Éin- One
Her- Her/their
Jeen- That/yonder
Mein- My
Sein- His/its
Soon- Such a
Veel Words
These determiners are undeclined if singular but follow normal declension rules if plural. Adjectives following them take the strong endings.
Nominative: -/-/-/-e
Accusative: -/-/-/-e
Dative: -/-/-/-en
Genitive: -/-/-/-er
Determiners With This Declension
Meer- More
Soveel- So much
Veel- Much/a lot
Wenig- Few
Woveel- How much
Beidet (Both)
This word occurs as a pronoun in both the singular and plural but only in the plural when used as a determiner. The singular form is always used for two situations or two choices and can be used with objects, and when doing so treats them as a collective whole. The plural is always used for people and can also be used for objects.
Nominative: Beidet/Beide
Accusative: Beidet/Beide
Dative: Beidem/Beiden
Genitive: Beides/Beider
Unlike other determiners/pronouns Beide has a unique mixed/weak form beiden which occurs after determiners which take those adjective forms in all 4 cases. Note that even though the mixed declension in modern language takes the ending -e, the mixed form of beide remains beiden. Whether or not it is preceded by another determiner, all adjectives following beide take the weak endings.
Numerals
Twei (Two)
Unlike all other words used attributively, this one maintains a distinction between the genders in the plural. Adjectives following take the weak endings.
Nominative: Twein/Two/Twei
Accusative: Twein/Two/Twei
Dative: Tweien
Genitive: Tweier
Drei (Three) & Vier (Four)
Adjectives following take the strong endings
Nominative: Drei and Vier
Accusative: Drei and Vier
Dative: Dreien and Vieren
Genitive: Dreier and Vierer
Numerals Above Vier
All numerals above vier are undeclined. Adjectives following them take the strong endings.
Vowel Reduction
Vowel reduction is particularly common in unstressed determiners:
-The vowel in all definite articles is pronounced as /ə/. Thus unstressed de and die are pronounced the same. When used as relative pronouns they are always stressed.
-For chein, ein (but not éin which is always stressed), mein, dein, sein, her, and unser the vowel is pronounced as /ə/.
-The endingless forms ein, chein, mein, dein, and sein are often further simplified to just ei' /ə/, chei' /çə/, mei' /mə/, dei' /də/, and sei' /zə/ when not before a vowel
-Eine is often further reduced to just 'ne /nə/
-When used before a pronoun or determiner, undeclined all is pronounced /əl/
-Endlingless dis is pronounced as /dɪs/ when stressed in contrast to the other forms which pronounce the stem as /diːz/. When unstressed, endingless dis is further reduced to just /dəs/
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 04 Feb 2019 20:45, edited 10 times in total.